quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

They slip off the rock. During their plummet, God appears before them and says "I'll give you a second chance, but you have to promise to stop doing this ridiculous stuff."

Each and every one of them would agree. You know it's true.

Sure, and a week later that same person is trying to figure out a loophole in that "agreement" so they can do that "stupid shit" again. That is 100% true.....also.

There is no way I can explain to anyone after being maybe 3 seconds from blacking out and dying in 210' of water, why 2 weeks later I was on the same wreck, doing the same dive......except maybe its just.....

I see a slight difference in diving vs climbing. In climbing when something goes wrong it's bad in a heartbeat and it's over. In diving, it's often a slow burn. I like to call it a snowball effect. I often have time to react to a problem. It's how you react that makes the difference. I've been in a few bad places on dives. Mostly on wrecks. I always had a few seconds or minutes to figure stuff out. As long as you don't panic you can figure it out. That and you have built a toolbox of experience that allows you to comfortably deal with a bad situation.

In climbing, it goes bad so quickly by the time you realize it's bad it's too late.

Another difference is that when they recover a diver's body, their internal organs are still internal.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
I was almost killed in a climbing accident whenI was 16. The guy next to me was killed, I watched him fall to his death. Some of you making jokes of this are might light of a difficult experience.

When someone dies doing an unnecessary, voluntary and recreational stunt.... is that person now some sort of saint who can't be criticized?

I've witnessed injury and death at work. Those were accidents as well, but no one romanticizes it. I don't recall people making jokes, but that doesn't mean no one did.

Getting killed doing a dangerous recreational activity, should not exclude one from mockery or other criticisms.

Couldn't have said it any better.

Thrill seekers die doing un-required activities? I don't give a damn. Yes, bye. Shed no tears.
Those who die because of accidents at work? Completely different story.

I dunno. Pilots as a group can be pretty hard on other pilots who make poor decisions, even if those poor decisions are driven by pressure from manglement at their work. As a pilot, you are ultimately responsible for the safe conduct of the flight. (Period). Even if the boss is pushing you to push the limits and it seems like your continued employment may hang on you doing something that you know you probably shouldn’t. You are supposed to do the right, safe, thing. If you don’t and you get yourself and or others hurt, the pressure from manglement may be acknowledged, but your memory is not escaping the blame.

There is a huge book of FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations), but the most important one isn’t written in there. It is quite simply, “Don’t screw up.”

More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

What are you trying to say or justify?

Free climber/free faller

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

What are you trying to say or justify?

That it could very well be despite the headline grabbing nature of an "extreme" sports related death...statistics would bear out that a crap diet and obesity is far more likely to result in a "they died doing what they loved" outcome?

I think it would be fascinating to look at the life expectancy of extreme sport enthusiasts (who are very fit) vs. the average American.

Rock climbing is an unforgiving activity. With guns, one can often violate one of the four primary gun safety rules and a tragety may not occur. IMO climbing probably has more rules and violating even one of them can have big consequences.

I never cared much for rappelling. I consider it a integral part of climbing, but try to avoid it whenever possible. During a rap you're completely reliant on gear. At least with roped climbing, the gear is your safety backup -- your climbing skills and your decisions are your primary safety systems. Some of the most flagrant violations of rappelling safety I've ever seen was by military personnel practicing speed rappelling at Joshua Tree National Park, close to 29 Palms, CA.

Many years ago I climbed at El Potrero Chico. It's a great place to sport climb -- the best walls have immaculate limestone cliffs of amazing heights. I hired Kurt Smith to guide me for the better part of a week. At that time, Kurt was one of the strongest climbers in the world.

IIRC Kurt was in the final stages to completing development of the El Sendero Luminoso route, which Brad Gobright was killed on. El Sendero Luminoso is beyond my skill levels. I climbed routes rated 5.9 and 5.10 with Kurt, with our longest routes being a little over 1,000 feet high.

Climbers use long ropes at the Potrero -- 80 metres is common. Most don't simu-rappel, however. I've simu-rappelled a couple of times with partners I have really, really trusted. Much can go wrong. It can speed up the rap descent on really long climbs, especially in the time of year where daylight hours are short. Eliminating the knots in the end of a rap rope is just a bad practice -- one of those safety rules one doesn't do on multi-pitch climbs.

Climbing is an unforgiving activity. RIP Brad Gobright.

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

The opioids part of it absolutely. The alcoholism, probably. The suicides and illnesses are a little harder to say. Some probably are, some probably aren’t.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

What are you trying to say or justify?

As I said earlier, in each and every one of these threads, SFL has to try to justify and rationalize his own behavior. He does this in each and every one of these threads, but he's fooling no one.

The idea that chemical dependencies are the same thing as engaging in a sport- a SPORT!- where you know from the get-go that there is a high risk of you falling off a cliff, wing-suiting into a bridge or the ground, crushing your skull while bungie-jumping, or running out of air and slowly suffocating while cave diving- it is to laugh.

But, he's not secure enough in his own choices that he can allow these occurrences to be discussed and criticized. Ain't that right, SFL?

I imagine we have more than a few cave divers, mountain climbers, wing-suiters and the like in this forum, but SFL is the only one who consistently has to jump in to try to justify and rationalize his behavior.

Not that it matters but does this count as a free solo climber death. I remember listening to Alex Honnold on Joe Rogans podcast and he said it's extremely rare for a free solo climber to die while soloing because it's the best of the best and their concentration levels are through the roof. He said most climbers die when they let their guard down because they "think" there is a rope to save them if they make a mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Not that it matters but does this count as a free solo climber death. I remember listening to Alex Honnold on Joe Rogans podcast and he said it's extremely rare for a free solo climber to die while soloing because it's the best of the best and their concentration levels are through the roof. He said most climbers die when they let their guard down because they "think" there is a rope to save them if they make a mistake.

He was rappelling back down. This would not be considered a free solo climbing death.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
More epidemic stupidity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health...TEOoHwDFrWvBQDKY6iUU

What are you trying to say or justify?

That it could very well be despite the headline grabbing nature of an "extreme" sports related death...statistics would bear out that a crap diet and obesity is far more likely to result in a "they died doing what they loved" outcome?

I think it would be fascinating to look at the life expectancy of extreme sport enthusiasts (who are very fit) vs. the average American.

Life expectancy for extreme sport "enthusiasts" is very likely less, because insurance actuarials have already figured it out. There are fit "average" Americans, as well as unfit "enthusiasts," who have genes just as bad as anyone else. Poor life decisions can have immediate consequences, or relatively slow consequences, and something will eventually kill everyone. Whatever that "something " is will just kill you a lot faster if you get closer to it than you should.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Not that it matters but does this count as a free solo climber death.

No, he didn't die Free Solo climbing. He dead rappelling.

If people actually knew how many free climbers there are around the world - they would understand that the risk of death is not that much greater than getting in your car and driving to the grocery store. While a death like this makes headlines 1-2x annually - there are literally thousands of other free climbers doing what they love. I was climbing years ago in Utah and was amazed at the number of free climbers. Certainly not for me - I like ropes and protection - but I don't look at these people as stupid or ridiculous risk takers.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick-SP2022:
Every time I read about some climber falling, I am reminded of the opening scene from Vertical Limit.
There is zero chance I will ever try this.
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Q0gx_D--iDw" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

-- I always think about this one: [FLASH_VIDEO] <iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZEVMv_WOoxg?start=1" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Don't worry - nothing like what was depicted in any part of vertical limit has or ever will actually occur in the real world of climbing. I chuckle every time I see this scene. (especially the falling backpack)

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Let's hope he didn't procreate. Gay free climbers. That's what the world needs......
....But, he's not secure enough in his own choices that he can allow these occurrences to be discussed and criticized. Ain't that right, SFL?

I just dont see a lot of critical discussion regarding these occurrences other than using terms like "idiot, stupid, gay".

I have no problem critically assessing what this guy or any person that dies doing something "extreme". Cave Diving was one of the first activities to really study fatalities to lean from them (see: Blue Print for Survival). We can all learn from the mistakes of others.

I will admit a certain admiration for people that push the limits of their endurance be it this guy, Sheck Exley, Thor Heyerdahl, Sir Ernest Shackleton, Edmund Hillary, Lino Lacedelli, Alex Honnold, Jacques Piccard or any "world class" explorer. (and I am not putting myself anywhere near those guys, I couldnt even shine their shoes) Did Heyerdhal really need to take a raft across the Pacific?

But any insecurity I may have felt, if any, went away when I was inducted as a Member National into The Explorers Club......a Club just for idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
I was climbing years ago in Utah and was amazed at the number of free climbers. Certainly not for me - I like ropes and protection - but I don't look at these people as stupid or ridiculous risk takers.

You mean free solo climbers, right? Free climbers still use ropes and protection and is a relatively safe recreational activity.

And if you're saying that free solo climbing is no less risky than driving to the supermarket, then you're out of your mind.

Are we supposed to be impressed, SFL? I have no idea what that is, nor do I care, nor do I see what it has to do with the fact that these EXTREME spports boobs keep managing to kill themselves at a very young age. Now, these deaths are facts, not matters of opinion. Their youth and various manners of death in these various "sports" are matters of fact. The fact of the matter is that while death can take any person at any time, all these EXTREME sports boobs would almost certainly still be alive, and would be alive for decades if they had not thrown away their lives. And, again, if they had the chance, you know that they would want to come back to life. You know it, and what does this tell you?

Any more bragging you want to do? I see this stuff as an extension of the "I'm a badass because I risk my life foolishly for a sport".

E-G-O

Show us your scouting badges, man!