Being forced off POTS and converted to VOIP. I'm getting an AP-A unit sent to me and the instructions indicate to not connect the AP-A phone outlet to the home phone jack.

However, the phone company website indicates that this is technically possible but requires a technician be sent to the house ($150 visit).

I don't want to use the AP-A phone jack to connect directly to my (cordless) phone set since the AP-A unit needs to be near wired LAN connection which is not convenient for the phone base.

It seems, via webz searches, that I can connect the AP-A phone outlet to a phone wall jack (connecting to the phone base elsewhere in the house like its current location) as long as I disconnect the external incoming phone line from the phone company to the house. This is very easy to do (it's an RJ(?) connector and not individual wires like before). I can do this outside the house or inside the closet (the home hub where phone, cable and cat5 are sent to various rooms in the house).

Need some expertise: To connect the AP-A to the home phone wiring and my cordless phone base (in its current location in another room), can I connect the AP-A outlet to the hub phone jack in the closet assuming I've disconnected from the external incoming phone company line (which should be disabled once I terminate landline service). Or is it more complicated than this? Would the phone company tech do anything more than this?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,

The reason not to connect the VOIP>POTS (AP-A) adapter to a connected POTS line is that there is AC voltage on the POTS from the telco.
The AP-A will become your telco & provide the power to drive a normal phone.

If you isolate your POTS system from the telco, you can use multiple phone jacks around the house with the same AP-A. I've done this multiple times, however I don't know your hardware or line setup, so I'm being vague. If you do as you suggest, you should be fine.

Thx. I was thinking that’s all it was and should be fine. But wasn’t completely sure. Expert insights appreciated.

I’ll disconnect the external incoming phone line.

Check for a plug-in transformer connected to your in-house lines. Would see these for power to the night light on Princess style phones on older systems. A few times I have seen a wire pair used to power an alarm system.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:

The reason not to connect the VOIP>POTS (AP-A) adapter to a connected POTS line is that there is AC voltage on the POTS from the telco.

Old timey Central Office systems design engineer (long retired) chiming in: Traditional POTS lines have 48 volt DC. The only time AC was present, was when ringing was applied to the line.

To be clear, there should be no voltage and connecting the AP-A to inside jacks should be okay after disconnecting the external telco line at the interface box?

Unless someone did something funky along the way, disconnecting the incoming service should be all you need to do.

If you want to be extra sure, use a multimeter after you have disconnected the incoming service to make sure there is no voltage on any of the phone wires inside your house. If there is something funky like a separate transformer hiding somewhere in the house, you will still see voltage on your internal wiring even with the service disconnected. I’d disconnect the base station for your wireless phones before trying this test in case they put a stray voltage on one of the lines.

That won’t tell you if someone was using the phone lines as a convenient power source for an alarm or something like that, but if that was the case it shouldn’t blow anything up when you plug the new VoIP bridge in. At worst, whatever was being powered will turn off when you disconnect the incoming service line from the telco.

- Bret

Many of the posts above assume a level of understanding of old-style and modern phone technologies that few possess. There are few basic commonalities between the two even when great pains have been made to try to match them up. This posting is intended to provide some basic overview information rather than specific advice.

The AP-A is AT&T's (SW Bell) version of what is more commonly called in the VoIP world an ATA (Analog Terminal Adapter). This is a device that allow connecting an old Bell system phone to a SIP provider over the Internet, in the case of the AP-A, the SIP provider remains AT&T by default, but you might be able to change this if you wish. My bet would be that AT&T has this option administratively blocked.

You can use any off-the-shelf ATA to connect your legacy phones to any SIP provider. One side plugs into your LAN network switch, or WiFi, the other side provides a RJ-11 jack into which you plug your already-in-place phone wiring. Unless you have really fancy old-style phones or some legitimate personal attachment to them, I would not recommend this route.

You will almost certainly have more options, cheaper, and better service by replacing your old analog phones with quality SIP phones. These are available in desksets, portables, etc. You can even connect your own SIP PBX in your facility and control almost everything locally. Most (all?) SIP providers offer a virtual PBX that will give you comparable capabilities in the cloud. After having done more than a dozen full-scale analyses for corporate clients, I have found that the traditional phone companies provide the poorest reliability, the most expensive, and least featureful services among SIP providers.

There is a reason every doctor's office and most businesses you go to employ SIP phones throughout. One thing I urge clients to do is to examine the SIP phones they see in various offices and to note features and styles they like.

I would be happy to discuss this matter in greater detail, and make specific recommendations for provider/equipment in e-mail via my profile address.

Thx. I’ll try to find a spare phone cable that I can cut to expose individual wires. Dumb q: measure each wire against ground? Or should a measure particular color pairs?

We use Verizon home phone service for the land line. I unplugged the telco line from the outside entrance box. I connected the Verizon home device into the existing telco wall plug in the kitchen. All our phones plugged into the wall ports and our alarm system that used the hard telco line is now passed wireless.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Thx. I’ll try to find a spare phone cable that I can cut to expose individual wires. Dumb q: measure each wire against ground? Or should a measure particular color pairs?

Old style is a twisted pair, red and green, the second pair black/yellow is for a "second line." I'm sure V-Tail could tell us which is + and which is GND, I've forgotten. ISTR that the AC ringing current reverses the polarity from the DC "carrier" voltage.

Architect: thx. I think based on my service and reading the webz, I’m stuck with the APA-A. I had to look up what a SIP phone is; doesn’t appear that I can use them if the APA-A unit is required. I’ll do some more research.

I’ll try to find the voltage expected for line color.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Architect: thx. I think based on my service and reading the webz, I’m stuck with the APA-A. I had to look up what a SIP phone is; doesn’t appear that I can use them if the APA-A unit is required. I’ll do some more research.

I’ll try to find the voltage expected for line color.

Yes, having a SIP phone eliminates the need for an ATA. Don't worry, if you turn down AT&T for their (undoubedly rented) AP-A, you can always use another one/brand that you can buy for as little as $30. They will still allow you to use, and get billed outrageously for their VoIP provisioning. You will need to use an ATA (from any vendor) if and only if you intend to keep your existing phone wiring to feed your existing analog handsets.

Across red and green = 48VDC, same across yellow and black. This is the "carrier" that tells your analog lineset that the line is live/gives dial tone. If you have a second line from the same provider, you'll get the same voltage between the other pair. Or, simply plug in an analog instrument and listen for off-hook dial tone. The red/green pair will be the inner two contacts in a four wire RJ-11 jack/plug. You will usually find the same color matches in gray PVC-coated cables, but not so much in the clear insulation ones.

I think I finally understand the conversion that AT&T is mandating. If they have already replaced your TV/Internet feed with a fiber or co-ax run from their plant to your home, you will have a box, usually mounted outdoors, that has a "customer" side and a "provider" side (or maybe installing fiber is what they will be doing). Out of the fiber box, called an "ONT" (for Optical Network Termination) they will have either or both a co-ax jack and an Ethernet jack that will run to your AIO "router" box/network distribution facility. You want Ethernet if they give you the choice.

There will be a separate cable from the street for the POTS service, and a separate junction box. Post-conversion, they may tie into the latter to feed your phone jacks, putting the AP-A inside the ONT. Either way, a fair amount of authorized (customer side) or unauthorized (provider side) can be easily accomplished. You might need an appliation-specific half-round driver/"can wrench" to gain access to the provider side. This is what the "technician visit" is all about. If you do opt to pay them for this 5 minute service, get them to remove any overhead cables from the street to your house they no longer need. They will probably refuse to do this, but you might get a nice technician.

Thx! I’ll take a look at the box later and see if I can match up to what you wrote.

I think I know the answer but wanted to confirm with you experts.

To be able to connect the AP-A unit to my home POTS wiring, I just need to disconnect the gray RJ connector here in my outside telephone interface junction box (telco connection to house). Correct?

Sorry, I lied. One more question

I found this on the webz.

Professional Installation (Backfeeding): If you want to use your existing in-home phone wiring (wall jacks) with the AP-A, you must schedule a professional installation with AT&T. A technician will disconnect the outside line at the Network Interface Device (NID) and install a splitter to backfeed the signal from the AP-A to your home wiring. This service may incur an additional charge.

I think disconnecting the gray RJ cable is the disconnection at the NID. The splitter part is to allow the AP-A to connect to the home wiring as well as a phone at the AP-A unit? Or what does the splitter part mean? If it just means a parallel connection from the AP-A to the home wiring and a phone, I don't think I need the splitter. I was just going to connect the AP-A to the home wiring and connect a phone to a jack somewhere else in the house.

Thanks again for your help.

Just a comment, not another question.

I just noticed that there is no indication if a voicemail is available. Apparently, you have to go to a handset, get a ringtone and listen for the type of ringtone that indicates a voicemail is available. Kind of a big miss if you ask me. Every message device I’ve ever used for 40+ years has had an indicator light and/or beep to indicate a voicemail is waiting. Doesn’t inspire confidence in the unit or the service.

Update: I think I got my confirmation. It sounds like the RJ connector connects the external POTS lines to the internal terminals. Connecting something to the RJ jack is a connection to the external POTS line enabling confirmation that POTS is working; any issues from there is inside the house.

Not sure why there are two pairs of wires going to each of the two pairs of green/red terminals. But I believe each of the two (siecor) terminal blocks is for a separate telephone line.

Also, then, sounds like I don't need a splitter anywhere. I just plug the AT-A unit into an RJ jack inside the house and the plug in phones into other RJ jacks elsewhere in the house.

For redundancy, I have an RJ jack/cable in the closet hub that comes from the outside NID box. I may disconnect that as well.

Unless somebody with more expertise corrects me, I think I'm good for activation next week.

Thanks again!

One more thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread. ATA's have an REU (Ringer Equivalence Unit) rating which, essentially, is the number of old school phones that they can cause to ring for an incoming call. Make sure the added up REUs on the handsets does not exceed the AP-A's REU rating. This is usually only a factor in marginal cases although some older Bell system desksets/consoles were very hungry.

WRT your photo, it certainly does appear that the gray cable plugged into the RJ-11 jack is the tie between the provider side on the NIC and the customer side. The whitish cable bundles on the right side of the photo appear to be the wires that go to your internal wall jacks. It looks like they are using the white-on-blue//blue-on-white for line one, and the orange pair for line two with the brown and green pairs disconnected. You should be able to confirm this via visual inspection of your internal phone jacks.

I would still strongly recommend implementing a modern VoIP-based phone system over trying to retro-fit your existing phone plant into AT&T's chosen scheme.