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Info Guru
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posted
The issue is not housing. It's not 'finding people willing to do the work'. The answer is pretty obvious to anyone who knows anything about economics.

They try to place a majority of the blame on high housing costs without asking why those costs have gone up. When you raise the minimum wage to an absurd level, the price of everything else goes up. It's not rocket science.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...aurants-service.html

San Francisco Restaurants Can’t Afford Waiters. So They’re Putting Diners to Work.

SAN FRANCISCO — Souvla, a Greek restaurant with a devoted following, serves spit-fired meat two ways: in a photogenic sandwich, or on a photogenic salad, either available with a glass of Greek wine. The garnishes are thoughtful: pea shoots, harissa-spiked yogurt, mizithra cheese.

The small menu is so appealing and the place itself so charming that you almost forget, as a diner, that you have to do much of the work of dining out yourself. You scout your own table. You fetch and fill your own water glass. And if you’d like another glass of wine, you go back to the counter.

Runners will bring your order to the table, but there are no servers to wait on you here, or at the two other San Francisco locations that Souvla has added — or, increasingly, at other popular restaurants that have opened in the last two years: RT Rotisserie, which is roasting cauliflower a few blocks away; Barzotto, a bistro serving hand-rolled pasta in the Mission district; and Media Noche, a Cuban sandwich spot with eye-catching custom tilework.

Inside these restaurants, it’s evident that the forces making this one of the most expensive cities in America are subtly altering the economics of everything. Commercial rents have gone up. Labor costs have soared. And restaurant workers, many of them priced out by the expense of housing, have been moving away.

Restaurateurs who say they can no longer find or afford servers are figuring out how to do without them. And so in this city of staggering wealth, you can eat like a gourmand, with real stemware and ceramic plates. But first you’ll have to go get your own silverware.

“Souvla was the beginning of this whole new onslaught of things that in every single way look like a full-service restaurant — nice décor; good wine list; tasty, healthy foods. It’s much more chef- and ingredient-driven,” said Gwyneth Borden, the executive director of the Golden Gate Restaurant Association. “But it’s ‘take a number and go to a table.’ ”

She regularly hears from restaurateurs considering the model, who want to create the Souvla of Mexican, the Souvla of Italian. (Souvla is apparently to Bay Area restaurants what Uber is to gig-economy start-ups.)

Restaurateurs here have taken a model familiar to taquerias and fast-casual, cafeteria-style places like Sweetgreen and Chipotle Mexican Grill, and pushed it further up the fine-dining food chain. Call it fast-fine, they suggest, or fine-casual. Or counter service “in a full service environment” that includes $11 cocktails and $22 pan-roasted salmon.

Such hybrid restaurants are spreading to other high-cost cities, and they fit what analysts say is growing demand for more flexible dining options. But here, the extreme economics have rapidly made the model commonplace.

San Francisco’s tech riches have fed demand for restaurants — and some wealthy tech workers have decided they would also like to be partners in a restaurant, opening up more investment. But as those highly paid workers have also driven demand for scarce housing, the city has struggled to keep lower-wage workers afloat.

On July 1, the minimum wage in San Francisco will hit $15 an hour, following incremental raises from $10.74 in 2014. The city also requires employers with at least 20 workers to pay health care costs beyond the mandates of the Affordable Care Act, in addition to paid sick leave and parental leave.

Despite those benefits, many workers say they can’t afford to live here, or to stay in the industry. And partly as a result of those benefits [b]NYT just can't admit an obvious truth, restaurateurs say they can’t afford the workers who remain. A dishwasher can now make $18 or $19 an hour. And because of California labor laws, even tipped workers like servers earn at least the full minimum wage, unlike their peers in most other states.

Enrico Moretti, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, estimates that when housing prices rise by 10 percent, the price of local services, including restaurants, rises by about 6 percent. (The median home price in San Francisco has doubled since 2012.)

So burgers get more expensive as houses do. But even wealthy tech workers will pay only so much to eat one. “If we were to pay what we need to pay people to make a living in San Francisco, a $10 hamburger would be a $20 hamburger, and it wouldn’t make sense anymore,” said Anjan Mitra, who owns two high-end Indian restaurants in the city, both named Dosa. “Something has to give.”

If customers won’t buy $20 burgers, or $25 dosas, and the staff in the kitchen can’t be cut, that something is service. “And that is what we did — we got rid of our servers,” Mr. Mitra said.

In December, he opened a counter-service version of Dosa in Oakland. The new restaurant serves cardamom- and fenugreek-spiced cocktails. But there’s also a self-service water station, and a busing station for diners inclined to clear their own tables. (If they aren’t, an employee will do the job.)

Charles Bililies had worked in fine-dining restaurants for years before he opened the first Souvla in 2014. By then, restaurateurs were already fretting about the city’s employer mandates and housing costs.

“We can sit around here, and we can complain and whine and moan,” Mr. Bililies said. “We can be very negative about this. Or we can sort of turn this on its head and see an opportunity.”

At Souvla, there is no oversize menu board above the counter, no service line where your food is assembled before your eyes. Behind the counter sits a shelf of wine glasses for the all-Greek wine list, touches that make the place feel plausible for a dinner date.

At the original Souvla, the counter is just inside the front door, so a line invariably spills onto the sidewalk, a neat marketing trick that also means the restaurant wastes little of its rented space on waiting customers.

The model and the small menu are conducive to takeout, which produces more than half of the revenue at this location. The restaurant has just 40 seats, but now averages more than 900 meals a day, far more than a full-service restaurant could manage in the same space.

For restaurateurs, counter service makes fine dining — or something like it — profitable. To economists, it makes sense. David Neumark, a professor at the University of California, Irvine, who has studied the minimum wage, recalled a trip to Norway where nearly every restaurant he and his wife visited relied on counter service.

“I said, ‘Well, duh,’ ” Mr. Neumark said. “It was so clear there.” Norway has among the highest median wages in the world. So parts of this story are not new. “Economic history is filled with ways that we have figured out how to do things with fewer workers, and ultimately that’s what makes us richer,” he said.

Innovations in farming machinery or microwave meals, for instance, freed up people to be more productive, and better paid. But that is not entirely what is happening here. Restaurants haven’t developed a way to serve meals with less labor. They’ve gotten customers to do the labor they had been paying employees to do.

There is something innovative in reprogramming diners to decouple fine food from full service. But the fact that restaurants have to do this speaks to deep fears here of what the Bay Area will look like if certain classes of workers can’t afford to live here.

“It’s really sad,” said Jennifer Sullivan, who worked for years as a server in the area. Twenty years ago, she moved from Chicago to Oakland, where she rented a $750 studio apartment and waitressed her way through college. She fears that story would not be possible in the Bay Area now.

“I’ve even had dystopian future visions of buses full of labor that come from the outskirts of these really wealthy areas,” she said.

A few blocks from the original Souvla, at the celebrated modern French restaurant Jardinière, the chef Traci Des Jardins said her labor costs, including taxes and health care, now eat up 43 percent of her budget.

When she opened Jardinière in 1997, they were 27 percent. (Mr. Bililies said Souvla’s percentage is in the mid-20s now, even with paid vacation and retirement benefits.)

Ms. Des Jardins has experimented with raising her prices, but she said customers simply spent the same amount in different ways, skipping a second glass of wine, or ordering two appetizers instead of an entree.

At one of her other restaurants in town, she now serves lunch as counter service.

“I enjoy doing what I do, and we support a community of people here,” Ms. Des Jardins said. “But the economics are pretty rotten.”

Souvla, on the other hand, is planning to expand beyond the Bay Area, starting with New York. Mr. Bililies said he wanted to occupy “iconic streets in iconic neighborhoods in iconic cities.”

The strategy, in other words, is to go to precisely the places with rotten economics.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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The start of the death throws of a city.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And they still don't get it...




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I'm glad I've made the decision to be LAX-based (for the short term) in the next step in my career. Not that LA LA Land is any better than the Stalag of SFO. Didn't feel like dodging bums, needles and fecal matter on the sidewalk anyway...



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Wow, the utopian dream isn't free. Who would've thought. Idiots!!

Jim


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Posts: 9791 | Location: The right side of Washington State | Registered: September 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


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Posts: 25845 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


Interesting. I've never been in an actual restaurant that did this. A few fast food type places, but not an actual restaurant. What types of restaurants are you seeing this in?



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
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I get that raising the minimum wage affects inflation but I disagree with the article's belief that it is such that is moving the housing prices out of minimum wage workers' reach.

The more likely cost is not the minimum wage but the supply/demand curve.

The demand for San Francisco is high due to the appeal of living in San Francisco and, also, due to the influx of highly paid tech workers located in San Francisco itself and spilling over from Silicon Valley. They could have kept the minimum wage at $5 an hour all these years and, given everything else that has transpired, the situation would still be where its at because the minimum wage isn't what's driving the salaries for these high-tech jobs.

What used to be low cost housing in what used to be low-income neighborhoods such as Mission district are quickly being renovated into high priced housing.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
They try to place a majority of the blame on high housing costs without asking why those costs have gone up. When you raise the minimum wage to an absurd level, the price of everything else goes up. It's not rocket science.


Could also be some of what supposedly is causing similar problems with housing in Seattle; government restrictions and regs making affordable housing scarce.
 
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quote:
The more likely cost is not the minimum wage but the supply/demand curve.

The demand for San Francisco is high due to the appeal of living in San Francisco and, also, due to the influx of highly paid tech workers located in San Francisco itself and spilling over from Silicon Valley.

Yep.
Minimum wage workers aren't bidding up the price of San Francisco real estate....



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Posts: 24881 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:

you have to do much of the work of dining out yourself. You scout your own table. You fetch and fill your own water glass. And if you’d like another glass of wine, you go back to the counter.

Runners will bring your order to the table, but there are no servers to wait on you here,


Not to shit on your thread, but I've eaten at a lot of places like this, not just in CA. Hell, Torchy's Tacos in Texas has the same business model. Same with many taquerias, burger joints, bbq joints, etc. But I agree that the economics of Frisco and their restaurant industry is bullshit. I still travel to SF for business and I hate eating there, just pisses me off sometimes.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
The more likely cost is not the minimum wage but the supply/demand curve.

The demand for San Francisco is high due to the appeal of living in San Francisco and, also, due to the influx of highly paid tech workers located in San Francisco itself and spilling over from Silicon Valley.

Yep.
Minimum wage workers aren't bidding up the price of San Francisco real estate....


The culprit in the housing market is San Francisco's rent control laws.
https://sf.curbed.com/2017/11/...study-gentrification

As history has shown time and time again, everywhere it's ever been tried, rent control leads to extreme housing shortages and an increase in costs.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The only part of this whole thing that I support is paying the traditionally "tipped" workers the same wage as regular folks. Expectant tipping is a horrible idea.
 
Posts: 503 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: December 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


Interesting. I've never been in an actual restaurant that did this. A few fast food type places, but not an actual restaurant. What types of restaurants are you seeing this in?


Restaurant has a very broad meaning.

What would be the difference between this and my local Dairy Queen besides the price? If you eat inside the DQ you go up to the counter and order. You get your own stuff (paper napkins, plastic utensils ect) you need to eat behind you. Go to a table of your choice they bring the food to you when it is ready.
 
Posts: 2681 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


Interesting. I've never been in an actual restaurant that did this. A few fast food type places, but not an actual restaurant. What types of restaurants are you seeing this in?


Restaurant has a very broad meaning.

What would be the difference between this and my local Dairy Queen besides the price? If you eat inside the DQ you go up to the counter and order. You get your own stuff (paper napkins, plastic utensils ect) you need to eat behind you. Go to a table of your choice they bring the food to you when it is ready.


That's what I mean. Fast food type restaurants. This article is about what is considered 'fine dining' establishments where you would typically sit down and be served.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


Interesting. I've never been in an actual restaurant that did this. A few fast food type places, but not an actual restaurant. What types of restaurants are you seeing this in?


Restaurant has a very broad meaning.

What would be the difference between this and my local Dairy Queen besides the price? If you eat inside the DQ you go up to the counter and order. You get your own stuff (paper napkins, plastic utensils ect) you need to eat behind you. Go to a table of your choice they bring the food to you when it is ready.


That's what I mean. Fast food type restaurants. This article is about what is considered 'fine dining' establishments where you would typically sit down and be served.


Yeah, we're not talking about some BBQ shack here. If I'm going out to a nice restaurant with my wife, I damn well expect to be served. In a nice restaurant, excellent service is half the experience.


~Alan

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Posts: 31171 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Yes, some places every where do this - lots of burger / taco / etc places where you line up, order, then sit where you want, get your own drinks, and they only bring you the food (or you come up when called).

The food might be better than a Fast Food joint, but it's in the same realm as fast food - no tipping, just paying for food and eating. Not a 'dining' atmosphere nor 'dining' prices.

I'm fine if that is how a place of business chooses to set itself up, but it's not a fine dining place or somewhere I'm going for that type of experience or really really good food.

And if waiters in SF are getting full wages, you might as well delete "tipping" from your vocabulary, because you ain't getting any (not that I'll ever go back to SF for anything).
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by hile:
The only part of this whole thing that I support is paying the traditionally "tipped" workers the same wage as regular folks. Expectant tipping is a horrible idea.
Just delete tipping as a whole. They are fully paid employees, no need to 'tip' anymore.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I am confused.
This is something places have been doing for years around here. I like it very much no need to pay a tip.


Interesting. I've never been in an actual restaurant that did this. A few fast food type places, but not an actual restaurant. What types of restaurants are you seeing this in?


Restaurant has a very broad meaning.

What would be the difference between this and my local Dairy Queen besides the price? If you eat inside the DQ you go up to the counter and order. You get your own stuff (paper napkins, plastic utensils ect) you need to eat behind you. Go to a table of your choice they bring the food to you when it is ready.


That's what I mean. Fast food type restaurants. This article is about what is considered 'fine dining' establishments where you would typically sit down and be served.


The article makes no mention of fine dining.
Sounds exactly like the multiple Greek places we have here along with BBQ places the list goes on.


————————————————
The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
 
Posts: 25845 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chilihead and Barbeque Aficionado
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Seattle is next. They are doing the same things as SF.


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