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His Royal Hiney |
And this part, that it’s a payment transfer as if that makes a difference doesn’t hold water either. Every tax is a payment transfer or, more accurately, a transfer of value. I pay the government my taxes. The government pays Raytheon for its defense contracts. I will never see the utility of the ships or weapons still being designed. That’s for people in the future. People in the past paid for the utility of the defense systems currently deployed now. So by your logic, should we stop defense spending at some point especially for systems still being thought up given that it’s going to benefit people in a future time and not our time? "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Honky Lips |
Here is the rub, Gen X, Silent, Greatest generation they're also all older than the Millennials. I've spoken with wide swaths of these generations, both older and younger than the boomers. The older were of course gracious but they too had major bones to pick with the boomers. The Greatest and Silent generations though observed history did everything they could to improve the world for those that followed. The boomers revel in their "Fuck you I got mine" mentality but once the siren call of the nursing home shows that no one is interested in going to see them they'll die alone. _____________________________________________ Proverbs 3:31 "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." | |||
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Member |
Rey, only one of them results in a direct payment to you from the government. Taxpayers paying for defense does not result in a “defense payment”, it results in ideally in less conflict - a public good. Any transfer of money from one citizen to another, without it being a payment for goods and services is completely at odds with the US form of government. The fact that people paid taxes in the past for some collectivist Ponzi scheme is absolutely irrelevant. | |||
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Member |
This needs to be repeated, over and over and over again because this IS the source of the problem. At the times that SSI, etc. were enacted, tying those programs up into social security was likely the only way politically to enact greater benefits for those that don’t work. Hiding all of the overly generous welfare benefits given to those that don’t work or otherwise contribute to society in many different spending programs is a pretty effective way to hide just how much money is given to non working folks in this country. Similar to replacement of government cheese and direct providing of food to the indigent with food stamps, SNAP, etc. it has all been done to hide all the transfer payments and remove any shame associated with receiving handouts. This has allowed successful generations of government leadership to seize more and more power from the people by making more and more people dependent upon the government welfare state. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
True story: The teacher I subbed for today not only does PE, but also a high school Economics class. Today’s lesson was about the Circular Flow Model and “transfer payments” was one of the terms used in the book. I got to talk about the Ponzi scheme we call Social Security, explain how what they were paying in wasn’t being saved in any account for their benefit but instead was going to pay for the benefits of those currently receiving them and also leave them to ponder what happens when there aren’t enough young people to pay for all the old people. They weren’t particularly thrilled with the idea of taking more of their efforts to give to someone else. | |||
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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Also keep in mind that over the more recent years the tax code has carved out ever more tax credits for children and child care. Plenty of young families pay not only NO net income tax, they actually receive dollars back in the form of refundable credits. These are tax breaks we never had, nor did our parents. About half of wage earners pay no net federal income tax today. But those of us on SS and Medicare definitely do pay federal income tax, including on our SS (despite Trump's claim that the BBB eliminated tax on SS). It isn't as simple as saying SS is a transfer of wealth from the poor workers to the rich old retirees. And, there most definitely was a verbal contract with the government that if we paid into SS they would provide benefits when we retired. Again, it isn't a simple situation. | |||
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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Medicare is likely a much bigger drag on current taxpayers than SS. SS pays out about $1.5 trillion per year. Medicare spends about $1.1 trillion per year. Social Security has been net positive cash flow, meaning payroll taxes coming in have exceeded checks going out. But Medicare is only funded about 50% by current payroll taxes. People on Medicare pay some small portion of the costs in premiums, though those on Advantage pay zero. So it is difficult to quickly tally how much Medicare spending is net negative cash flow, but it is in the hundreds of billions of dollars annually. That's going into the national debt and will be paid, somehow, by somebody in the future, but not by retirees. Medicare and SS are both presented as insurances against being destitute in old age. | |||
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| Member |
Labeling an entire generation as “selfish” is simpler than answering the hard question: what happens to decades of mandatory contributions if the system is changed? If privatization is the answer, how do you get there without wiping out what people already paid in?? | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
 Dramatic fireworks is a bad look. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Member |
Glad I’m not the only one that saw that comment as a bit uncalled for. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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A Grateful American |
QED. Everyone dies alone. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא עוד | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
But some die bitter and disillusioned. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Many live their lives that way.... | |||
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| His Royal Hiney |
Both result in a direct transfer of payment from one taxpayer to the government to another taxpayer. I pay the government then the government pays Raytheon. And if you’re now adding “goods and services” as a criteria, you’re sorely missing the fact the the government gives out money under many programs without the expectation of receiving goods and services. They’re all under the umbrella of “social welfare” which, hopefully you understand now isn’t the welfare that you were thinking of. So, I just want to be clear: 1. You were wrong in thinking social security is welfare. 2. You were wrong in thinking that the government has no money. Shouldn’t being wrong in the fundamental aspects of the problem make you realize you should pause, recalibrate your thinking, and go back to the drawing board? I’m not saying there isn’t any problem. I so wanted to hear your proposal in that other thread. And when you pointed out your proposal, I critiqued it but you didn’t respond to my comment. You can rail about the problem as much as you want but, understand, since don’t understand the nature of the elements of the problem, your proposals are more than likely not going to be effective in solving the problem and you will still live with the problem long after the last Boomer has died. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
I alsways appreciated the irony of Boomers saying: "I dont want to vote for Sociaiism!" and "Keep your hands off my Social Security!" ...in the same breath. SS is the very epitome of socialism. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
The government has three choices: raise taxes, cut benefits, print more money. None of which are popular. What you call the program or who you blame for its failure doesn’t change that. | |||
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| Member |
Funny how “keep your hands off my Social Security” really means “please don’t redefine the deal after 60 years.” Very odd and funny. Are you with me on that comrade? | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Yes, it is. We have adopted socialism, piecemeal, in so many ways including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, and in other forms of welfare. It all started with adopting socialism in "public" education. But at least "public" education is largely run by the States and therefore is Constitutional. None of it is listed in the Constitution as a legitimate power of the federal government. Tenth Amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution establishes the principle of federalism, stating that any powers not specifically given to the federal government, nor withheld from the states, are reserved for the states or the people. It ensures that the federal government only has the powers granted to it by the Constitution, reinforcing the idea that states retain significant sovereign authority over matters like education, local law enforcement, and zoning. Ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, the amendment was crucial for securing ratification by reassuring Anti-Federalists that the new national government wouldn't become too powerful. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
Chellim1 Johnson is right! | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
The Constitution was carefully drafted to create a federal government capable of performing the few tasks that the individual states could not. Beyond that, it was designed to limit the federal government so that the “blessings of liberty” would promote the general welfare of all Americans. The Ultimate Problem With The American Government’s Spending Addiction Our Founders knew this would be a problem and prevented it, but the New Deal Supreme Court dishonestly blew past all constitutional limitations. https://www.americanthinker.co...nding_addiction.html "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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