Is shipping a pistol from FFL to FFL via UPS Ground legit? This means it could be left @ door unattended without adult signature. Is this a common practice between dealers? The way I read UPS rules this should not happen, but it does!Anyone who has had this happen care to comment?

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
Is shipping a pistol from FFL to FFL via UPS Ground legit? This means it could be left @ door unattended without adult signature. Is this a common practice between dealers? The way I read UPS rules this should not happen, but it does!Anyone who has had this happen care to comment?

Legit, no. The UPS rules are pretty clear IMO. Now, some business have special deals w/UPS and/or FEDEX to ship 2nd day, but that's the "slowest" I've ever seen.

Is it common practice to ship a handgun VIA UPS ground between dealers? Never that I've seen. And while I haven't been doing this as long as others, never sent one, nor received VIA UPS ground between dealers. I've gotten one from an individual, and was pretty disappointed they did, just to save a few bucks. If they would have told me upfront, I wouldn't have accepted it, considering they didn't even use a signature service.

And yes, a box without signature service can be left at a door unattended, no matter what carrier/service they use (UPS, USPS, FedEx).

Do people do it? Yea. Dealers? Not that I've seen. Remember, we are talking just handguns, rifles are different.

What kind of comment are you looking for? You'll hear people argue about the legality of shipping a handgun UPS without following their rules, IMO a bad idea.

FFLs can ship handguns legally and much cheaper by USPS.
Non FFLs have to use FedEx or UPS overnight (to follow the rules).

Xanth, Thanks for the reply. I recently purchased a pistol from an online dealer. I paid for the pistol with a USPS money order.I was charged$35.00 for shipping.Tracking number was furnished to me shipped UPS. Pistol arrived at my FFL a few days later was left at the garage shipped UPS standard Ground. cost about $15.00. I don' t mind aguy making a buck or two, but this is a shitty way of doing it.Not the way to do business in the firearms business!

Many years back UPS left a 4" M-66 Smith on my front porch despite "signature reqd" on the label. We seldom used the front door and it sat there for three days. Luckily I finally saw it.

UPS is expensive with overnight required for pistols. Due to THEIR internal theft issues. Shipping a handgun could cost upwards to $70 now.

I use USPS Priority mail, gets anywhere in the US in 2 days. And runs about $20 or less, depending on how much insurance is added. That does have to be done FFL to FFL. And many postmasters are unaware of how it's done.

The few guns I've bought online were found on a site like gunbuyer where they list them by the price including any shipping.
My understanding is that UPS will ship long guns via ground but not handguns. In that case, the shipper violated at least UPS rules and didn't properly insure and ship.

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
Xanth, Thanks for the reply. I recently purchased a pistol from an online dealer. I paid for the pistol with a USPS money order.I was charged $35.00 for shipping.Tracking number was furnished to me shipped UPS. Pistol arrived at my FFL a few days later was left at the garage shipped UPS standard Ground. cost about $15.00. I don' t mind aguy making a buck or two, but this is a shitty way of doing it. Not the way to do business in the firearms business!

You're serious about this?
I mean I get the peeve of no signature, and overnight, but, ummm... $35, no matter his cost, isn't the hill I would choose die on.

Ive sent rifles via UPS but prefer to send handguns via my FFL.

As an FFL, I do all my shipping through USPS. UPS and Fed EX charge a fortune and they usually give you flak about having to take the item to a “hub”. All handguns require a signature.

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
Xanth, Thanks for the reply. I recently purchased a pistol from an online dealer. I paid for the pistol with a USPS money order.I was charged$35.00 for shipping.Tracking number was furnished to me shipped UPS. Pistol arrived at my FFL a few days later was left at the garage shipped UPS standard Ground. cost about $15.00. I don' t mind aguy making a buck or two, but this is a shitty way of doing it.Not the way to do business in the firearms business!

Yea, the FFL shouldn't send it like that, for sure. Crappy thing, but I'd just chalk it up and not do business with that business again.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
I use USPS Priority mail, gets anywhere in the US in 2 days. And runs about $20 or less, depending on how much insurance is added. That does have to be done FFL to FFL. And many postmasters are unaware of how it's done.

I ship everything USPS priority. And there are quite a few places that it doesn't make in 2 days anymore. In fact, the past couple ones I sent out were three days (NC, and Iowa).

Insurance tends to get expensive. Even sending it USPS now a days isn't as cheap as people think. Flat rate boxes, insurance, and a signature service, take it over $20 bucks very quickly. Even using regional rate boxes, the insurance and signature service (adult signature in a lot of cases) adds up to more than $20 bucks.

Heck, the last pistol I sent out to CA was over $50 bucks USPS. Ouch.

And I'd agree with the last statement, many post offices are clueless.

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
...I was charged $35.00 for shipping....shipped UPS standard Ground. cost about $15.00. I don' t mind a guy making a buck or two, but this is a shitty way of doing it. Not the way to do business in the firearms business!

I agree with you that over charging for shipping is a shitty way of doing it.

After deducting $15 actual shipping charge from the $35 he charged you, that leaves $20.

I can't say exactly how much the shipping box, bubble wrap, and if the guy used UPS to package it up, how much that labor fee might have been.

I use the UPS Store all the time for shipping Christmas gifts because their website allows me to make an appointment so there is no waiting when I walk into the store.

Unless it is an unusual box, that $20 is still high for just a handgun but it probably chewed up about half of that $20 if the seller paid UPS for the box, bubble wrap, and labor to package it all up.

As I understand it, FFLs have some paperwork to do when they take possession of a firearm (chain of custody and all); then you have to add the cost of packaging/handling and shipping.

To be honest, I've found it considerably cheaper to use an FFL to ship handguns with USPS than pay the overnight costs associated with UPS or FedEx.

I purchased a handgun from Georgia Gun Store a few weeks ago, and it was shipped UPS ground to my FFL. It was supposed to be delivered today, but according to UPS tracking, it hasn't moved out of the Atlanta area, so I think it's been lost or stolen.

Stoic-one,
I am damn serious about this! I don't know or care what you think about my principles , but they are mine. You are entitled to yours, but is not what my OP was about.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

Non FFLs have to use FedEx or UPS overnight (to follow the rules).

Two separate issues here.

1. Federal regs require non-FFLs to ship via common carrier, like UPS, FedEx, etc.
   
   
2. The Federal regs do NOT specify overnight. Second day air, or even ground, would meet the regulatory requirements. However, both UPS and FedEx have internal company policy that requires overnight shipping. In terms of legal requirements for overnight, there are none. If you choose to ship via a less costly UPS or FedEx service, instead of overnight, you are not breaking any law. However, in case of loss or damage, you might be on your own, as you have not complied with their company policy.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

Non FFLs have to use FedEx or UPS overnight (to follow the rules).

Two separate issues here.

1. Federal regs require non-FFLs to ship via common carrier, like UPS, FedEx, etc.
   
   
2. The Federal regs do NOT specify overnight. Second day air, or even ground, would meet the regulatory requirements. However, both UPS and FedEx have internal company policy that requires overnight shipping. In terms of legal requirements for overnight, there are none. If you choose to ship via a less costly UPS or FedEx service, instead of overnight, you are not breaking any law. However, in case of loss or damage, you might be on your own, as you have not complied with their company policy.

V-tail is right. A FFL or a non FFL holder can ship by UPS ground, when shipping to a person entitled to receive a gun (generally a FFL holder) under federal law. The law would permit ground shipping with no signature.

To reiterate what V-tail said, UPS and Fed-Ex, insist on shipping guns only by overnight service, requiring a signature. That is not required by law, just by the shippers.

We get all paranoid, because the law on this can be a little confusing, and because everyone is afraid that losing a gun in transit will make them responsible, somehow, if the gun shows up at a crime later. (That fear is generally misplaced, in my view.) And, to many of us, a gun is a valuable-ish item. But, in the grand scheme of things, a $600 pistol isn't really that valuable. People ship many things worth a lot more with about as much trace-ability all the time.

To me, a gun is valuable enough to ship via a means whereby it can be tracked, and requiring a signature for delivery. Since I am not an FFL holder, I can only use UPS or Fed-Ex to ship to FFL holders (and can't ship to non-FFL holders by any means), and I have used their overnight services to ship guns.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

Non FFLs have to use FedEx or UPS overnight (to follow the rules).

Two separate issues here.

1. Federal regs require non-FFLs to ship via common carrier, like UPS, FedEx, etc.
   
   
2. The Federal regs do NOT specify overnight. Second day air, or even ground, would meet the regulatory requirements. However, both UPS and FedEx have internal company policy that requires overnight shipping. In terms of legal requirements for overnight, there are none. If you choose to ship via a less costly UPS or FedEx service, instead of overnight, you are not breaking any law. However, in case of loss or damage, you might be on your own, as you have not complied with their company policy.

Yes, I said "to follow the rules", not laws; the rules being the shippers policies.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

V-tail is right.

Was there ever any doubt?

Thanks to all who have contributed pertinent, helpful information. I think I understand the rules and regs fairly well.
I just find it hard to believe that an FFL would ship a some what valuable pistol appx $700.00 valu to another FFL without insurance and no adult signature required.I have had $30.00 worth of dog food stolen off my porch left by UPS. Thankfully my FFL has the pistol in his possession And I will pick it up soon.This is a life lesson, I will not be doing business with this company again.

I have been using a local gunshop for years , which also has a UPS shipping terminal. They have shipped many guns for me, however, they ship out using their stores address , whichever method the person specifies.

I urge all buyers of my firearms to carry extra insurance, but you would not believe how many do not want to spend the money on insurance.

I don't have a problem shipping via UPS Air, but is it really the seller's responsibility to provide extra insurance?