quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I think it would be appropriate for the Iranian Surface to Air Missile site that shot the drone down to disappear without warning tonight, along with some surrounding support buildings / equipment / radars.

I believe that's referred to as a "measured kinetic response".

Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

Yes. Preferably from several different sources. I don't consider any party to this event as trustworthy.

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I'd bet my next paycheck there's a recording of the exact lat/long when the drone was hit by the SAM. And I'm sure for "National Security" reasons, that location cannot be made public.

LTG Guastella, USAF Centcom Commanding General, confirms it had not violated Iranian airspace "at any time during it's mission".

Do you really think that with our capabilities nowadays, that we can't program a computer to stay 13 miles away from the coast of Iran?

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
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I'd bet my next paycheck there's a recording of the exact lat/long when the drone was hit by the SAM. And I'm sure for "National Security" reasons, that location cannot be made public.

And if that's the case, then I believe no one's comments on what happened. The US intelligence community has a bit of a credibility issue to deal with, so in the interim, they need to show us the evidence if they want us to line up behind their decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Do you really think that with our capabilities nowadays, that we can't program a computer to stay 13 miles away from the coast of Iran?

Nope. I'm asserting that 'if' the drone intruded into Iranian airspace, it was not by virtue of any computer or operator error. The flight paths of those drones are tracked down to the inch. It should be no issue whatsoever to release the flight path of the drone to everyone. That completely removes the questions about where it flew and where it was downed, and would hopefully, fully support the US position on the incident.

Start drilling in Alaska. F@ck their oil.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

Oh for Pete’s sake.

quote:

It was a "Reaper Drone" that was shot down. These things are pretty damned big, and they're not even the biggest in inventory!!

Everything I've seen states it was a Global Hawk, not a MQ-9 Reaper. GH's are are quite a bit bigger, and more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

Oh for Pete’s sake.

Roll your god damn eyes at someone else. The US intelligence community hasn't exactly been infallible over the past several years (the Syrian gas bombing comes to mind), so asking for them to support their position with a bit of evidence should not be too much to ask for before we start considering a stroll down a path that could lead to another Iraq or Afghanistan.

Iran is doing everything to start a war with us. Makes me wonder are they really that crazy or do they have nukes hidden somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
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I'd bet my next paycheck there's a recording of the exact lat/long when the drone was hit by the SAM. And I'm sure for "National Security" reasons, that location cannot be made public.

No need to bet yours or mine. I know there is such a recording and it would be a good place to start. Given all the crap that has been covered up under the guise of "National Security" over the last 50 years makes it critical that the flight path be verified before we go about breaking stuff and killing people (theirs or ours).

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
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I'd bet my next paycheck there's a recording of the exact lat/long when the drone was hit by the SAM. And I'm sure for "National Security" reasons, that location cannot be made public.

Don't forget that different countries define "International Waters" differently. There is a general standard, but not all countries adhere to it.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
...(the Syrian gas bombing comes to mind),...

I don't entirely disagree with you, but even if the "Syrian gas bombing" thing was not accurate (which I believe it was), what was the end result?

Option A: We fucked up their ability to do it...again.

Option B: We made Assad think very seriously about doing it again or to begin with.

Option C: We made the world KNOW that we would not stand for this kind of shit.

How are any of those bad options?

Look, I'm with you on a long protracted ground war in some Middle East shithole. But like it or not, we ARE the world's policemen, and we HAVE to flex our muscles at times to keep the world in line.

I don't want Russia, China, or Iran taking over that role and I don't think you do either.

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:
Iran is doing everything to start a war with us. Makes me wonder are they really that crazy or do they have nukes hidden somewhere.

Even if they have nukes, they can't get them here.

A stout, measured response is the correct way to go. Wipe out the SAM systems covering the area, the radar sites that tracked the drones, and maybe a couple of hits on the small boat bases that did the mining of the tankers. If they have drones up, smoke check a bunch of them as well.

We may not want a war, but if we fight one, they will lose. And I'm not talking about invading, I'm talking about breaking their shit from afar. Drones, airplanes, TLAMs, etc.

Briefing said the drone was outside Iranian Airspace and 20nm from the SAM site. They have footage of the drone dropping from the sky.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

Oh for Pete’s sake.

Uh huh.. so you are expecting the world to believe CENTCOM/CIA/etc without a single shred of evidence, just he said/she said, then bombs away??

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

BS You knock them in their hole now with a measured response before it costs the lives of servicemen. Those people only understand one thing and screw what the rest of the world thinks.

This. The US can have a response that is measured relative to our capability while being devastating to the Iranian regime. I agree that we don't need to play games with American lives. Counter punch now, and make them feel it.



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quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Anybody else want to see the documented flight path of that drone, and specifically where it was hit? I'm sorry but I'm channeling my inner Ronald Reagan..."Trust but verify". 'If' it was downed in international airspace, I'd have no issue with the SAM site that downed it disappearing. But I want to be shown proof of exactly where the drone was when it was downed before any actions are taken.

I understand your concern; I don't trust any of our government agencies either. But lets not forget the ships they attacked. Were they in Iranian territory too?

In any event, I can't help wondering about the timing of all this and the wisdom of shooting that drone down. What are they hoping to accomplish? They certainly don't want military conflict with us despite the chest pounding.

If Trump does nothing, he looks weak to a large block of his base. If he strikes back, he gives fuel to the Dems and the MSM and still loses favor with a set of voters who will not tolerate military action regardless of the circumstances.

Iran see's the polls. Want to sabotage his re-election