I ordered the book “The Obesity Code” as I am interested in what it says.

The Obesity Code, yes this!!!!! -162 lbs here.

It seems like a book I should read.

It does make us procrastinate.....

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
You don’t have to eat a big meal for breakfast, you just need to eat something to fire up your metabolism. And it is the most important meal of the day for that reason, not because of a breakfast cereal. Your definition of big meal and mine will be vastly different. People over analyze these statements too much and try to pick everything apart. Your metabolism and genes dictate more than anything. I said eat that big meal at breakfast for people who are used to eating full plates. Your body has been asleep for 6, 7, or 8 hours so it will rip that first meal apart compared to the rest of the meals in the day because you don’t eat when you sleeping. At night when I am less active I eat smaller meals. Many people when they get up have to get going. Shower, dress, drive and start working. All of that takes energy. It also gives those making big changes (smaller meals or less calories) something to look forward to in the mornings. It’s that one meal of the day they can can loosen up their own restrictions. It doesn’t mean eat until you are bloated and weigh yourself down. It means it’s the one meal of the day you can get away with a few more calories.

The experts don’t agree and they change their opinion like the wind. One day wine or coffee is good for you, the next day bad. Another says fruit is bad due to sugar, idiots, the sugar is nullified by the fiber in it. I am not peddling anything and know what works. Smaller timed meals, eat at the same times everyday so your metabolism goes into a clock. I have never had it not work for someone who tried it and stuck to it. The trainers who train these actors for roles such as Hugh Jackman for Wolverine, or Alicia Vikander for Tomb Raider, every single person I’ve seen, trained, or read train for 3, 4, or 6 months for something does the same thing. Smaller portions timed and exercise. Day in and day out. It’s nothing new and decades old. How small or large the portion is dependent on genes, sex, age, and activity level. And just my opinion breakfast is the most important meal of the day. That’s meal one to start my day and my metabolism for the day. It also has to get me going. This reminds me why I don’t train anymore.

I disagree. I follow a simple 16 hr fast. I eat from 12 to 8pm, no breakfast. I am 48 years old and am in the best shape of my life. I sleep better. My moods are better and I am around 10% body fat. Not every regimen fits every person. You have to do what works for you. One thing that rings true is never to take fitness advice from anyone unless they are in better shape than you.

I think that people need to experiment, educate themselves from multiple sources, and actually pay attention to their medical tests and doctor.

If your energy improves, if you feel better, and if your vital stats all go to "normal" instead of "you're going to die, fatso!" Then you're doing it right.

If you achieve rapid weight loss in a short period of time, I'd be skeptical of any method, because long term repeatable results you can live with are what the goal should be.

If you can keep the weight off, not feel awful, and stick to it, then it works for you. As long as it works for you, and your labs come back healthy, little else matters.

Yes, lots of different WOE to make/keep you healthy.

I have gone to Keto since late spring and have recently started IF. I am becoming leaner than I have ever been. I am dropping fat and retaining muscle. I actually feel better when I fast a bit each day. My daly goal is to stop eating by 6 pm each night then start up again about 10 am. Getting a 16 hr fast in makes me feel more clear headed and energetic. I eat when I feel hungry then only eat until full. I log everything and stay within my macro goals. It feels great to be off the sugar and carbs! No more cravings, no more blood sugar spikes and major drops.

The old adage of breakfast being the most important meal of the day is outdated IMHO. But, again, everyone needs to chose their own best practice. For me this works.

quote:

Originally posted by dave7378:
I disagree. I follow a simple 16 hr fast. I eat from 12 to 8pm, no breakfast. I am 48 years old and am in the best shape of my life. I sleep better. My moods are better and I am around 10% body fat. Not every regimen fits every person. You have to do what works for you. One thing that rings true is never to take fitness advice from anyone unless they are in better shape than you.

You are free to disagree with anything you want to.

I don’t run my body with no fuel, never will. One of my professors in college attributed his diabetes to him skipping breakfast for a few decades because that is what his doctors told him. When I started studying nutrition 25 years ago, the nutritionists I consulted with, none of them advised skipping breakfast, and definitely not for someone that is very active. An 8 hour window would be impossible for me to get the daily protein I need and protein is the most vital nutrient.
When this fasting stuff started a few years ago we discussed it at the gym, and everyone one of us with decades under the belt said “What about the missed protein?” It would also be impossible to get the fruit servings, the antioxidants, a long list of nutrients in such a small window so that would affect my immune system, no thanks. For me, long term, not a good idea whatsoever. I’ve seen 6 month studies of intermittent fasting, I’ve seen none on long term sustained use of it, only warnings. Fasting, like diets, indicates a problem to me. Having to resort to trickery or extremes. That’s why I say “lifestyle change”. Most of us were taught what the food groups are at a very young age. We all know what food we should be eating and what we shouldn’t. Eat the right foods, and keep the portions under control, and use moderation when you don’t, and try to eat at the same times every day so your metabolism knows what to expect. It’s actually pretty simple yet people complicate it to no end because they don’t want to do this or that, feel the need to reinvent the wheel.

Breakfast being questioned has only come up the last few years and it’s funny because eventually they’ll have questioned or reversed everything. I’m just waiting on “new report”, vegetables or fruit or protein is bad. Actually I have seen fruit is bad in recent years, due to the sugar, but the same articles never mention the fiber in it that offsets it, nor all the antioxidants they possess which boost your immune system. The American Heart Association reported just last year that breakfast eaters tend to have lower blood pressure, cholesterol and heart disease. I know that eating breakfast means you are less likely to overeat the rest of the day. So it is vital to me, but I guess irrelevant to others.

Like I said disagree all you want it’s your body. I’ve lifted weights and studied nutrition ad nauseam for almost 30 years, and used to be a trainer. I’ve rarely been out of shape. I’ve had 4-5 year stints where I didn’t even have a cold. That’s isn’t due to genes, it’s me pumping my body with antioxidants every day via food and supplements. Weight is only one thing as it pertains to this topic. There is strength and muscle compostion, the immune system, blood, cholesterol, quite the list. I’d never sacrifice one for the other. One thing that hasn’t changed is the subject being highly contested. A new fad or diet every few months yet I’ve seen nothing new under the sun in decades. However you are going to jump the shark, at least get regular and consistent blood work and consult with a physician before doing anything extreme.

quote:

I don’t run my body with no fuel, never will.

Honestly, this statement alone suggests to me that some more research might benefit you.

Unless you have somewhere around 4% body fat, your body has plenty of fuel. If you think food is your body's sole fuel sorce, it isn't.

I'm curious why you would say your body needs fuel in the morning? Biologically and endocronolgncaly speaking.

As for your protein requirements, I'm not sure what your macro goals are, but the guys I work out with and I have never had an issue getting enough protein. If you macro's are crazy high or extreme, ok, but for the purposes of this thread, that isn't what we're talking about.

A lot of the really huge guys I know at the gym actually intentionally train in the fasted state. When your body is in the fasted state, it releases HGH and adrenaline. The adrenaline helps them hit the workout harder (so they say, I can't say I've noticed a huge difference), but the benefits of the HGH in your system is obvious.

As for your college professor, I have no idea what would make him say that. Diabetes is from too much insulin in your blood and you thus become insulin resistant. At least Type 2 anyways. Type 1 is altogether different, but I don't see how skipping a meal would matter for it either.

Did he say how skipping breakfast led to diabetes?

Give the Obesity Code a read and let me know where you think the author is wrong.

Fitness discussions are much like religious arguments. The "true and correct" answer is whatever the person is doing right now. Those that came before or those that will come in the future are fools and heretics.

Here's a serious question:

Look back at the US population. Obesity really exploded in the last 20-30 years, so something changed. I don't buy the "physical labor" argument. That may have been true for men in the first third to half of the 20th century, but it certainly wasn't by the 60s and 70s.

Virtually no one "hit the gym" or "worked out" after they left high school (there also was no need for a sports medicine clinic every mile). The streets were full of cars, not runners and bikes.

There were WAY fewer fresh fruits and vegetables available in stores off season than there are now. Canned and "processed" foods were all over the place. I never heard of intermittent fasting outside of Lent. We sure as heck didn't try to manipulate our metabolisms into ketosis.

Still the average BMI was probably 5-10 points lower than right now.

What happened?

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

I don’t run my body with no fuel, never will.

Honestly, this statement alone suggests to me that some more research might benefit you.

Sorry, I know you read some book and all, but no. I guess you’ve never had a solid metabolism because it sounds like you don’t understand and you’re citing big uns and I’ll get to that in a bit.

My muscles get broken down every day so even while I sleep they are in repair, consuming calories. So when I get up, I’m hungry, need to eat. Not wait 4 hours, or 8, or whatever. I have my metabolism clocked. I eat a very small meal prior to bed and when I get up I’m hungry, so I eat. I’ve got my metabolism working optimally and I should change? Why? I don’t need to lose weight so have no need for the obese book nor change an approach that is decades old and proven. If I miss a meal by one hour my body is letting me know. This is why I recommend this approach and have used it to drop weight on a whole lot of people in the past. One can use the same technique, drop the calories per meal down until their weight loss goals are met, then raise them to maintain. You learn to work with your metabolism and most importantly stay consistent, no shocks to the system. When my activity levels drop I cut calories. A guy I work out with is 49, 6-7% body fat and does 4 meals a day. But he’s a smaller guy and doesn’t need the protein intake I do. So I do 6, others do 8. I prefer my protein source to be food and limit the liquid kind so that means eating to get most of my protein intake instead of using a shaker and powder all day. If I had more time I would not even do shakes, or bars. I like small meals as it is efficient and quick. I don’t need to take a lunch when I can eat in 10 minutes. I don’t make a meal or eat a meal that takes me longer than 10 or so minutes sitting or standing. It has freed up a lot of time.

Where is the need to fast when I’m in shape? I’m not trying to be “the big guy” in the gym. I know what happens to those guys over time. All the added weight stresses the joints. And many of those guys are walking hypocrites. Putting anything and everything in their body for growth. Been around them for almost 30 years. I worked out of Ronnie’s home gym Metroflex for years. Seen him do lunges across the parking lot with a bar loaded so hard the metal would flex as he did them. He’s only 53 now, multiple hip replacements, multiple back surgeries with one requiring removing his intestines to do so, lots of health problems stemming from going big. Seen this countless times over the years from non-pros as well. I’ve never done things that way, and never had that approach. Things get sacrificed for growth, no thanks. I’m not competing nor compensating for something. My time in the gym is for strength and I’ve been in “maintenance” for years. Warmup the muscle group, a few sets to failure and move on to the next. Bigger means more calories, more work for digestive organs, more sets, more strain on the joints, more time, more everything. To me there is a point at which you get depreciating returns. My time is limited and I have to do cardio for my cardiovascular system. Lifting weights to be big and intimidating, to me is superficial. If it isn’t for some use, linebacker, logger, etc, what is the point? My goals have always been strength and health. Citing those people is never anything I would do.

And you want me to read some book and tell you where it’s wrong? Sorry bud I’ve got lots to do. Career, house to run, K9. A lot. If I read every little new fad book that came out I wouldn’t even have time for my own work. I’ve already stated fasting works for some people, I just don’t see the need. If you need to lose weight you need to look at the root cause. Poor food choices, like say fast food, where the combo meal is 1000+ calories, processed food, etc. Too large of portions, eating yourself “full” because a family member taught this. Irregular eating intervals. Or some combination of all 3. There is your root cause and fasting has nothing to do with it. That’s behavioral or food choices that need to change. Quit eating bad shit, quit eating so much, and start trying to be consistent. None of it is rocket science. There is no need for extremes of any kind. And if you eat pretty good already maybe you just need some light exercise per day. That could walking, running, bicycle riding, rowing, swimming, lifting weights, a lot of choice out there.

Btw, how long have you been doing your fasting? I’ve got nearly 30 years doing what I’ve outlined here and never been “fat” so no need for knee jerk stuff, and I’ve trained at least 100 people. Never bad blood work, strong immune system, no issues with obesity, and a metabolism that runs like a Swiss watch. Only negatives I have experienced were my own doing, some mild knee pain from going too heavy on squats and hacks when I was younger that I’ve taken care of with some wraps when I squat now. That’s it.


MNSIG: I’d say marketing is #1. People in this country do not understand marketing, advertiser agendas, target demographics, etc. Marketing is highly effective here. And the food companies, restaurants, fast food joint, etc, market the shit out of their shit. They’ve convinced the American public to shell out for their products or they aren’t really living. They have marketed that your life revolves around food and it has worked. What was the American standard 50 years ago? I’d say going out to eat after church, or once per week. Most of the time mom cooked dinner and the family sat down for dinner together. Today, we’ll just stop at the fast food joint on the way home and grab some bags of shit. These places have to be raking in the money hand over fist because there are so many here, they are everywhere, every street corner. Some with lines that wrap around their building most of the hours they are open. Then there is high fructose corn syrup in everything and game consoles that keep kids inside all day when 20 years ago they’d be out playing, and running, etc. Look at our youth today, wanting things just handed to them. They were trained that way from their “convenience” parents who are hooked on convenience. Convenience food = fast food. The convenient way of life. People have gotten lazy. They don’t want to exercise, don’t want to cook,they just want to sit and stuff.

Not to self: Do not engage in these discussions in the future. Thanks for mentioning this MNSIG, fucking pointless to engage in these discussions going forward for the reasons you mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:Today, we’ll just stop at the fast food joint on the way home and grab some bags of shit.

That's my opinion as well. It doesn't matter nearly as much what the ratio of carbs/fat/protein might be in the bag as the fact that the dang bag has half(or more) of the calories you should be eating all day! Do that a couple times a day all week and trouble WILL ensue. BTW: Unless every calculator I've ever seen is wrong, there is no way you can exercise your way out of that unless you are making exercise your occupation (like training for the Olympics 6-8 hours per day).

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by dave7378:
I disagree. I follow a simple 16 hr fast. I eat from 12 to 8pm, no breakfast. I am 48 years old and am in the best shape of my life. I sleep better. My moods are better and I am around 10% body fat. Not every regimen fits every person. You have to do what works for you. One thing that rings true is never to take fitness advice from anyone unless they are in better shape than you.

You are free to disagree with anything you want to.

I don’t run my body with no fuel, never will. One of my professors in college attributed his diabetes to him skipping breakfast for a few decades because that is what his doctors told him. When I started studying nutrition 25 years ago, the nutritionists I consulted with, none of them advised skipping breakfast, and definitely not for someone that is very active. An 8 hour window would be impossible for me to get the daily protein I need and protein is the most vital nutrient.
When this fasting stuff started a few years ago we discussed it at the gym, and everyone one of us with decades under the belt said “What about the missed protein?” It would also be impossible to get the fruit servings, the antioxidants, a long list of nutrients in such a small window so that would affect my immune system, no thanks. For me, long term, not a good idea whatsoever. I’ve seen 6 month studies of intermittent fasting, I’ve seen none on long term sustained use of it, only warnings. Fasting, like diets, indicates a problem to me. Having to resort to trickery or extremes. That’s why I say “lifestyle change”. Most of us were taught what the food groups are at a very young age. We all know what food we should be eating and what we shouldn’t. Eat the right foods, and keep the portions under control, and use moderation when you don’t, and try to eat at the same times every day so your metabolism knows what to expect. It’s actually pretty simple yet people complicate it to no end because they don’t want to do this or that, feel the need to reinvent the wheel.

Breakfast being questioned has only come up the last few years and it’s funny because eventually they’ll have questioned or reversed everything. I’m just waiting on “new report”, vegetables or fruit or protein is bad. Actually I have seen fruit is bad in recent years, due to the sugar, but the same articles never mention the fiber in it that offsets it, nor all the antioxidants they possess which boost your immune system. The American Heart Association reported just last year that breakfast eaters tend to have lower blood pressure, cholesterol and heart disease. I know that eating breakfast means you are less likely to overeat the rest of the day. So it is vital to me, but I guess irrelevant to others.

Like I said disagree all you want it’s your body. I’ve lifted weights and studied nutrition ad nauseam for almost 30 years, and used to be a trainer. I’ve rarely been out of shape. I’ve had 4-5 year stints where I didn’t even have a cold. That’s isn’t due to genes, it’s me pumping my body with antioxidants every day via food and supplements. Weight is only one thing as it pertains to this topic. There is strength and muscle compostion, the immune system, blood, cholesterol, quite the list. I’d never sacrifice one for the other. One thing that hasn’t changed is the subject being highly contested. A new fad or diet every few months yet I’ve seen nothing new under the sun in decades. However you are going to jump the shark, at least get regular and consistent blood work and consult with a physician before doing anything extreme.

Enjoy your breakfast I too have been training and studying for a long time. I have tried many, many workouts, nutrition plans, supplements, etc...What works for one does not necessarily work for someone else. There are a lot of reasons for this and there are always more than one way to reach a goal. This one works for me, has been the easiest to stick to(most important reason IMO) and I have never been healthier. As like a lot of things in life I regret not having some of this knowledge earlier in the game. Would have made it a lot easier and a lot less painful. Oh and the 16 hour fast isn't a diet, it's a lifestyle choice and it works, for me anyway. Whatever it takes to get you in the gym, keep you there, be healthier and stronger. I don't doubt that what you do works.

quote:

Not to self: Do not engage in these discussions in the future. Thanks for mentioning this MNSIG, fucking pointless to engage in these discussions going forward for the reasons you mentioned.

No Pre, your posts on the subject are great. Forces one to look at there position and be open minded. You are absolutely right about fast food btw. Worst garbage on earth. Disagreement isn't always a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Meanwhile, it is both that simple, and not that simple.

Or maybe (like running the trigger quickly, smoothly, without disturbing the sights, and with excellent follow through) it really is that simple, it just isn’t that easy.

I suspect that there is an element of different things working differently for different people as we are not all exactly alike.

I suspect that there are also different approaches that will work to achieve the same goal.

I can testify that reduced calories over a long period of time doesn’t work, at least for me. 800 to 930 calories per day, spread out over five meals for a 5’9” 185 male is not moving the needle anymore. It worked for a while and almost got me down to my college weight of 165, but almost is like close which only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

I am down from 270 to 238 this morning. I have done the no sugar, the atkins with good results but temporary.

Now it is about portion size and calorie control.

The difference is amazing

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Not to self: Do not engage in these discussions in the future. Thanks for mentioning this MNSIG, fucking pointless to engage in these discussions going forward for the reasons you mentioned.

No need to get steamed, man. People are going to do what works best for them.

Bump because people are still fat.

I am pretty educated on fitness but it has been a while so I enjoy hearing different opinions from people as different thing work for different folks and there is no wrong or right way for every person.

I have gained a lot of weight I don’t want and have not worked out for a very long time despite having a nice home gym. I have been working out hard now for 3 weeks and reduced calories but only lost a few pounds. I am taking bits and pieces of what everyone is saying and will apply what I think will work for me. I will do trial and error to determine what does work for me.

So I appreciate everyone’s input and don’t take it personal if someone doesn’t agree with your exact idea as there is no single approach for every human as much as you may feel. I have already learned a lot from very different opinions so I appreciate it a lot and do not want arguments to end a very good informational thread.

I take pics of myself in nothing buy my banana hammock every monday.

Maybe after 200lbs I'll share them with you guys. But as of Monday, I'm down 55 lbs and can see some differences from this weeks pictures from 3 months ago when I started.

Also, if your fat, I read on the net (so you know its true) that you loose a half inch for every 25 lbs your overweight.

I have to admit, I didn't gain an inch, but I definitely notice a difference down there.


Now if I can just get rid of this dickiedoo.