quote:

Was this just to see what happened or did you spend 30 minutes waiting to save the time of going through the checkpoint?

^^^^^^^^^^
Neither. Enjoyed the entertainment value of those making U turns. Most of the apartment complex was watching as well. I do not drink and if I see a roadblock I will try and avoid it if possible. I guess you feel it is your civic duty to wait in line to be checked. Good for you.

What typically happens to people convicted of drunk driving? Is the punishment not adequate that people care? Do they typically end up driving without a license or insurance anyway? Do they pay some fines and keep driving over and over?

Depends on the state. Fine suspension of license for a period of time and a alcohol device installed on your car. This is for first offense. The right lawyer can plead it down to reckless driving. After three DUIs in a five year period is a felony with mandatory jail time.

The typical cost to the drunk driver for the first offense is about 10 grand. This includes lawyer and court fees and the cost of high risk auto insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Just like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. YES you CAN do that if you believe there is a fire. But you cannot do it in order to create panic when you know there is not a fire.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not even when there is a fire. Pull the alarm and inform managment. And NO do not put it on Facebook Live.

Are you saying it would be illegal to yell fire in a burning theater?

My point to the other member is that there are many examples thrown around to say our rights are open to lots of restrictions, but many of those are extremely flawed.

quote:

Are you saying it would be illegal to yell fire in a burning theater?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It causes a panic. Ask your theatre manager or local fire department. I do not know if there is a law on the books or not.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Are you saying it would be illegal to yell fire in a burning theater?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It causes a panic. Ask your theatre manager or local fire department. I do not know if there is a law on the books or not.

The manager or even experienced experts in such matters might prefer pulling the fire alarm rather than yelling "FIRE" in the event of a real fire, but I refuse to believe a person would be in violation of a law.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
Even as gun owners we accept limitations on using guns. On the 4th of July do I do a mag dump into the air to celebrate? No. Because I understand what goes up must come down. Do some people in the near by neighborhoods understand that? Or have had a few drinks and make bad choices? Yep. And there are laws on the books prohibiting discharge of firearms near residential. Care to guess why? Or do you want to start the "Shall not be infringed" argument. But hey, ranges suck when compared to the comfort of home, so why not hang some targets on the fence and pew at my leisure. And anyone or anything on the other side, fuck em. They can kiss my American ass, right?

Firing your weapon in a non-emergency situation is neither keeping nor bearing arms, it is firing a weapon. Now if on July 4 you come under actual physical attack by a helicopter over your home, yes you are allowed to defend yourself by firing your gun into the air (presuming you are aiming at the attackers).

Just like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. YES you CAN do that if you believe there is a fire. But you cannot do it in order to create panic when you know there is not a fire.

These are not infringements on a right, they are prohibitions against intentionally committing harm to others. The tool or method does not matter.

If a DUI checkpoint is an infringement, is getting a drivers license the same? Compare five minutes at a checkpoint to how long at the DMV??? Or plates/registration? How about insurance? Those are things the government requires for you to drive. Or do you plan on ignoring those too? If so let us know when Para posts another "Sovereign Citizen getting his window smashed video" and you are the star. Those are always entertaining.

Yes, to the first question. Drivers licensing, vehicle registration and auto insurance are a revenue stream to the government. While all three can come into play if someone does something that causes damage to someone else, none of them prevent said damage. None of them make you safer. I have seen horrible drivers immediately after passing the exam and others whos driving skills deteriorated until their grown child took the keys away. The drivers license had no effect on those bad drivers. That we went along with giving up that amount of freedom back in 1920-1940, in no way lessens the fact that we gave up some freedom.

Incrementalism is not just a big word. Its a doctrine of ontrol over the masses.

I drove on public roads in North Florida for 5years before I got my drivers license. The Sherrif would wave as he passed us on the road. The government was much more in line with the Constitution back then.

At this point in time, we are too far down that road. We have bought into the permission premis on many things that are no ones business. I pay big money for building permits. The inspections are just silly, and add to the cost of the job. They are a revenue stream, and are used to raise property taxes. If you hire a contractor you know, the permit is useless. If you hire a stranger, you are a fool.

quote:

Originally posted by bryan11:
What typically happens to people convicted of drunk driving? Is the punishment not adequate that people care? Do they typically end up driving without a license or insurance anyway? Do they pay some fines and keep driving over and over?

That's exactly what happens . If they are not in jail then they are going to continue to drive . And a lot of them continue to drink and drive . The jackass that hit my wife had no license , no insurance , no job , no assets of any kind . Somehow he had enough money to get shitfaced drunk though .( .240 BAC )

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Was this just to see what happened or did you spend 30 minutes waiting to save the time of going through the checkpoint?

^^^^^^^^^^
Neither. Enjoyed the entertainment value of those making U turns. Most of the apartment complex was watching as well. I do not drink and if I see a roadblock I will try and avoid it if possible. I guess you feel it is your civic duty to wait in line to be checked. Good for you.

Whoa, take a chill pill. Your story was confusing and didn’t include reasons for your action. I was asking for clarification.

I would totally take another route to avoid a checkpoint just to avoid the hassle.

quote:

Originally posted by bryan11:
What typically happens to people convicted of drunk driving? Is the punishment not adequate that people care? Do they typically end up driving without a license or insurance anyway? Do they pay some fines and keep driving over and over?

As I stated in an earlier post, in too many cases there is no punishment that can change bad behavior. Sadly, I have substantial experience with those who have substance abuse issues. I have seen guys drunk on the same night they get out of jail. They take friends and families vehicles, causing irreparable harm to everyone involved. Usually they flame out early, thus saving us and their families from a lifetime of harm.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

quote:

Originally posted by bryan11:
What typically happens to people convicted of drunk driving? Is the punishment not adequate that people care? Do they typically end up driving without a license or insurance anyway? Do they pay some fines and keep driving over and over?

That's exactly what happens . If they are not in jail then they are going to continue to drive . And a lot of them continue to drink and drive . The jackass that hit my wife had no license , no insurance , no job , no assets of any kind . Somehow he had enough money to get shitfaced drunk though .( .240 BAC )

^^^Exactly^^^

quote:

Whoa, take a chill pill. Your story was confusing and didn’t include reasons for your action. I was asking for clarification.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OK your emoji confused me. If you asked for clarification I would have understood. I thought your emoji indicated consternation. If you had expressed the issue in words there would not have been a problem. I am not a fan of emojis.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
^^^
In order to get a driver's license, you also agree to abide by certain terms and rules.

Yes, but time and time again the courts have held that there must be probable cause for a stop. Weaving al over the road? Speeding? Defective signal? All probable cause. Driving home on a Saturday night? No not probable cause.

To answer a couple of questions, the link is to the statutory guidelines (requirements) for DUI sentences in my state. There are enhanced penalties under certain circumstances and a 3rd qualifying offense requires a felony charge. Each state is different but here is Utah’s which will also cite you if you blow .05 or higher.

https://www.utcourts.gov/utc/j...Overview-FINAL-2.pdf


As to the questions about stops, here is a link to a case decided by the United States Supreme Court on traffic stops. It may simply not be sufficient for some or raise more questions for others or be helpful to others. And, of course, your individual state may have more restrictive rights. But this is how the USSC sees DUI stops and why - at least in part. I hope this helps. I’m not trying to argue with anyone rather just point out that it is fairly well decided law under the Fourth Amendment if done correctly.

496 U.S. 444, 110 S.Ct. 2481, 110 L.Ed.2d 412, 58 USLW 4781.

I am a fan of impounding the vehicle the drunk was driving in addtion to the other restrictions.

Last one I was in went like this: Get waved over. The police officer gave his spiel then asked for license and registration. Showed it to him. Ask if I was drinking. Held up my travel mug and said only coffee. Was told to have a nice day and moved on. Whole thing was over in less than 5 minutes. Better than hiding in an apartment complex's parking lot for 30 minutes.

Plus it has been a while since I lived in an apartment, but remember parking was always an issue and most even assigned spots. So by parking in someone's spot, you inconvenienced someone else to avoid having a police officer ask you a couple questions. Good Job.

I remember seeing this several times driving across Nebraska, it would be a warning sign posted on side of highway, Slow Checkpoint ahead! except there would not be one. All the cars that exited the highway would have a nice surprise at the top of the exit ramp.

My old agency still does driver license checkpoints. We rotated shifts every 28 days, and we had to do two stationary vehicle checkpoints every day shift. I was never a fan, especially the mandated zero tolerance of any traffic violation detected. We didn't like our discretion taken away. I'm happy we don't do it at my new agency.

quote:

I remember seeing this several times driving across Nebraska, it would be a warning sign posted on side of highway, Slow Checkpoint ahead! except there would not be one. All the cars that exited the highway would have a nice surprise at the top of the exit ramp.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nebraska cops are famous for pulling over cars coming from Colorado to check for weed. It has been rather lucrative for them.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
If checkpoints for warrantless stops are fine then why not just go door (public or private) looking for a crime?

Because you would be driving on a public road, owned by the people, and managed by the elected representatives of said people, the government.

Going door to door, they would be in your residence, property either owned, or at least rented and controlled by private citizens. Big difference.