Went to PTO years ago over yearly allotment of vacation in June based on tenure. So, I have legacy time and time under the new PTO. good if you don't get sick. Bad if you do or have sick kids. But there are protected absences. We max out at about 4 months. I'd think PTO would be easier to administer since everyone just has a bank of time that is added to or subtracted from and requests are approved based on resource needs.

My wife is on accrued PTO, and is on blackout due to holidays effectively the last 4-6 weeks of the year. No rollover.

So, can't take off at the beginning of the year, because you haven't accrued any, and can't take off at the end due to blackout dates.

Sounds like stealing from your employees to me, but I'm in IT not HR.

PTO is easier for the company. Only one set of numbers to track instead of separate vacation and sick leave.

Traditionally, you can roll over vacation up to a limit then you stop accruing but sick leave goes away every year so people tend to use sick leave in lieu of vacation. Companies now put a limit on how much leave you can accrue because it's a big drain on payables; the vacation you earned last year is now worth more after your latest pay increase.

For exempt employees, they don't get sick leave. They can just call in sick and they're expected to make up for the work they missed since they're not paid by the hour.

The "threat" to go to PTO doesn't hold water because they can just carry over their rules such as gotta give a week's notice, etc. When I was in a small department, we would meet regularly to schedule vacation times so that people won't clash with vacation requests.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Going to PTO gave me more days off, since I very rarely used sick time.

I wish we had that option. I've been maxed out on sick time for years (capped at 360 hours), since I'm rarely sick or injured.

We can bank 420 hours of sick time and anything over they pay out once a year. We get 120 hours of sick leave a year. Unless something serious happens no one ever uses sick time. Your 5th year and beyond you get a check for 120 hours presuming you have not used any. When you retire that 540 hours can be used to purchase an extra 1/4 for you pension.

We also get 130 holiday hours a year and 14 hours of vacation a month after 12 years of service 12 hours prior to that.
I forget the number of hours one can bank for those as it is something ridiculous. I enjoy my time off and am never close to carrying anywhere near the allowed amount.
We also have comp time but that pretty much sucks as it must be used in the same week as it was earned.
We can use vacation whenever we want presuming staffing allows, if you take a holiday off you have to use holiday hours (if you have it), if not you can use vacation hours, you can also use holiday hours whenever.
Technically you can take a sick day whenever if you take 2 consecutive sick days you are supposed to provide a Dr. note as I mentioned before folks rarely use sick time since we can bank it and get paid plus they give us nearly 8 weeks off so unless something catastrophic happens or you really just have no desire to work there is no need to use your sick time.
If you need a day off and staffing numbers are at or below minimums you are supposed to be charged with sick time.
Most of our bosses don’t follow that rule if you give them a little notice and they can fill your spot with someone working overtime.
You call in last minute and they have to go looking for someone to fill in last minute they’ll make you use sick time.
If you have a true emergency and you really have no choice they usually won’t.

I guess I don’t understand how PTO is any different than vacation time.

My wife gets PTO, Sick and Holiday time. Her PTO functions exactly the same as our vacation does.

Having worked under both systems:

Vacation/PTO + sick time and PTO only, I can say that I much prefer the former over the latter for the following reasons:

If PTO is the only time off people get, they tend to resist using it when they are sick, since a good dose of the flu can wipe out a bunch of hard earned time off in one stroke. This results in them coming in to work sick and infecting every other poor sod in the office. This applies especially to the people who are young in service since typically, their available PTO is limited.

As mentioned above, sick time is normally paid out upon retirement or resignation.

You can bet that if the company is pushing for PTO only, it's not for the benefit of the workforce

quote:

Originally posted by Pyker:
You can bet that if the company is pushing for PTO only, it's not for the benefit of the workforce

That would be my feeling also, but you'd really need to read the fine print to see if the system works for you.

I've heard of PTO, but on the department I worked for we never had it...and it doesn't sound like anything that we had. What we had was:

1. Vacation (VAC) which we earned at 7.7hrs per pay period (PPP) and could be accrued up to 640 hrs...then they'd have to pay you for 7.7 hrs every time you earn it.
2. Sick Leave (SL) which we earned at 4.0hrs (PPP). Unless you were in management (Lt or above) they didn't pay you for it upon retirement, but they'd add it to you Time of Service...I know guys who retired with 2 years worth of (SL)
3. Holiday in Lieu (HIL) which was earned at 4.0hr (PPP) which was capped at 104hrs (13 holidays per year)...if you didn't use it, they paid you 4 hours (PPP)
4. Compensating Time Off (CTO) which you could earn when working overtime (OT). In lieu of taking 1.5 pay per hour, you'd accrue it in CTO...which you could use anytime you wanted (the closest thing we had to PTO). CTO expired after a year and they had to pay you for the time at whichever pay rate you were currently earning.

OT didn't count toward your retirement (actually any educational incentive you had on the OT did), but the pay off on CTO did count toward retirement

So if you didn't take time off, not hard when your department is understaffed, you could raise your income by almost 20% (4hrs= 5%)
2 years before retirement you'd take all your overtime as CTO so that your last year's salary (which they based your retirement on) when they paid off the CTO would be artificially inflated...an 8 hour OT shift would earn you 12 hours in CTO, which when paid off would raise your income by 15%. Working an extra day a week would be like giving yourself a 30% raise

We do PTO. I like it.

Both the amount you earn each pay period, and the amount you can carry over year to year, goes up with seniority.

Right now I earn about 10 hours off each pay period. I can carry 480 hours (yes, 48 days off). That's in addition to 88 (or 96 hours of Holiday time depending on if it is an election year or not) and any comp time earned (Overtime taken as time, not money, it is our choice, up til we have 80 hours of comp time, then we have to take the cash).

I figured it out, once at top seniority, someone could LITERALLY snowbird in Florida and take 3 months straight off and not use any more time.

I keep banking it as it increases, and am maxed.

One of these days I'm gonna throw up the deuces for the winter and be gone for 3 months.

We have been discussing switching to PTO but there’s too many old people who like what we have.

I’m almost at 25 years.
I have 5 weeks of vacation (2 weeks can be used as single days).
I have 13 holidays (i guess pto?)
Sick time is accumulating up to 28 years. We get 80hrs a year. I had 400 hours transfer in from my last job so I should be over 2000 sick hours. But after ten years of service, we’re allowed to cash out up to $10k worth of sick hours. At 28 years, you cannot cash out sick time earned after 28 years, you just call off sick.
Every six months you don’t use sick time, you get bonus pay of three days pay.
If you work OT, you can bank it as CT to use later. Max of 250 hrs. I maxed out years ago. So if I take a comp day now, I get it at my current rate. Yep. I earned most of my comp time at a much lower rate.

Everything is earned and must be paid out when retiring or leaving.

If we switch to PTO, mgmt us saying that’s no longer allowed.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
We have been discussing switching to PTO but there’s too many old people who like what we have.

I’m almost at 25 years.
I have 5 weeks of vacation (2 weeks can be used as single days).
I have 13 holidays (i guess pto?)
Sick time is accumulating up to 28 years. We get 80hrs a year. I had 400 hours transfer in from my last job so I should be over 2000 sick hours. But after ten years of service, we’re allowed to cash out up to $10k worth of sick hours. At 28 years, you cannot cash out sick time earned after 28 years, you just call off sick.
Every six months you don’t use sick time, you get bonus pay of three days pay.
If you work OT, you can bank it as CT to use later. Max of 250 hrs. I maxed out years ago. So if I take a comp day now, I get it at my current rate. Yep. I earned most of my comp time at a much lower rate.

Everything is earned and must be paid out when retiring or leaving.

If we switch to PTO, mgmt us saying that’s no longer allowed.

That's the rub. WE did a cut off a few years before I started. The "old" guys get a HUGE bump in retirement because of the buyback, which is factored into your last 3 years salary, which bumps the pension. If you can save the max time, it makes the pension much higher. Us PTO guys don't get that option.

THAT is one advantage of NOT going PTO, if you have a pension and a buyback.

When I started at the company I am at now, the PTO policy was a pain in the ass. Use it or lose it. If you missed work, your PTO was immediately used and applied toward the missed hours. Anything in your bank at the end of the years was gone and you started accruing again on Jan 1. PTE’s accrued at a lesser rate than FTE’s.

It is now quite different, and I’m proud to say I made the changes.
PTO has always been accrued hourly. Now PTE’s and FTE’s accrue at the same hourly rate. 0.0526 hours for every hour worked. After 36 months of service you accrue 0.07xx hours of PTO for every hour worked. Work more hours, accrue more PTO. Just because you’re a part time employee, you shouldn’t accrue at a lesser rate.
PTO forfeiture on December 31st doesn’t happen. You carryover your entire balance. (This also eliminates every employee wanting the last week of the year off).
If you miss work due to illness, or if you miss a few hours due to a doctor’s appointment, you’re not required to use your PTO. You can use it how you choose.
If you leave the company in good standing (two week notice, didn’t get fired, etc.) we will cash out your PTO on your final check.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyker:
Having worked under both systems:

Vacation/PTO + sick time and PTO only, I can say that I much prefer the former over the latter for the following reasons:

If PTO is the only time off people get, they tend to resist using it when they are sick, since a good dose of the flu can wipe out a bunch of hard earned time off in one stroke. This results in them coming in to work sick and infecting every other poor sod in the office. This applies especially to the people who are young in service since typically, their available PTO is limited.

As mentioned above, sick time is normally paid out upon retirement or resignation.

You can bet that if the company is pushing for PTO only, it's not for the benefit of the workforce

Same. We got more overall time when we had sick days + PTO. Now that it’s all in one bucket, PTO, I actually have less time. So I get sick and need to take off a week, that’s a week of vacation time I lose. I do not like it. I’d go a year or two without needing my sick time and the company was happy to have it back, unused. But everything in one, at least where I work, is less overall time you get off.

Now they are restricting carryover from year to year. Prior I could roll over several weeks of PTO, now just 40 hours. I ruffled some feathers with executive leadership during a Q&A during a town hall this year. They said “Ok, Pre has a question”. I say thanks, my question is this (they made the change during the pandemic): If I get Covid in January and I’m sick for 2 weeks recovering, my 40 hours of PTO are burned up in the first week. So then what am I to do, go on disability? You could have heard a pin drop. It was a long pause. And our disability pays 80% not 100%. They do this shit in general to benefit themselves, not the employees. The fact that they made the change during a pandemic, even my leaders off the town hall call said “I cannot believe they made that change during Covid” and I said I can. it’s their MO and stupid. I get Covid because you make me come in the office 3 days a week, and I get sick Q1 I guess I’ll have to eat the 20% pay cut. My direct leaders I said “This is the stupidest shit I’ve seen in my career”.

If I could say what company I work (I cannot) you’d get it.

We have a small team, and it’s not much of an issue, but I see two problems

A) As part of being a small team, if someone isn’t there, it can either really slow up production that day/tanks production for the day/makes everyone else’s day really suck.

Sick is one thing, spontaneous vacations is a BS thing to do to the rest of the folks. (2-3 weeks notice is something we can usually work around/need to know when the birthdays are for most of your crew, and plan on them missing a day or two after that, the Super Bowl, New Years, valentines, etc)

B) There’s a benefit in making them take an actual vacation. At least a week away from work, plus the Christmas to NY holiday we all take.