We are having a debate at work about PTO vs standard vacation time. We currently have standard vacation time with personal days and sick time.

We have between 2-5 weeks vacation depending on years of service. Everyone gets 3 personal days and 10 sick days each year. Personal days expire at end of the year. Sick days can build up to 90 days.

Only 1 week of vacation can be made into single days. The remainder must be taken as full weeks. Single vacation days also require 2 weeks notice.

As we have 24/7/365 staffing there are very few who get weekends off. The 2 weeks notice for single vacation days is a real killer.

Every time we bring up issues to the bosses they ramble off and just say we will go to PTO.

I’m starting to think this could actually be beneficial to us and we could have more single days off. As long as they don’t add weird restrictions.

So what are the pros and cons of PTO vs vacation time?

PTO is just days off. Doesn't matter what for.
Sick? Take a PTO day.
Need to go in for a procedure? Take a PTO Day.
Got the 'ronas and need a few days. Use PTO.
Going to Tahiti for a week? Use your PTO.

I doubt there are any restrictions on setting up nutty hoops to jump through for PTO if they wanted, but perhaps so.

I'm guess you aren't paid accrued vacation at separation and wouldn't be for PTO either, but that's something to consider. I think (??) some states mandate that vacation is considered accrued and payable but PTO is not. I could be way wrong on that.

At my job I accrue PTO hours per paycheck, up to a predetermined max.
Because it's "earned" it's payable upon separation (independent from any severance, if applicable).

I can take it on an hourly basis, or up to a 2 week block.

In my experience PTO is much more flexible for the employee.

Just make sure the PTO you get is not "unlimited PTO". IT sounds good, but it's not. It's a relatively new thing and it needs to go.

I've had PTO for at least a decade now. We've never had any of the restrictions you speak of. My group is pretty flexible on what we use our time for.

Going to PTO gave me more days off, since I very rarely used sick time.
Using too much sick time could negatively affect your performance review where I worked.

I've had "unlimited PTO" at my past job and my current. It sounds good on paper, and it may be good for those that otherwise wouldn't get much time off due to short tenures, but it ends up being detrimental. With few exceptions, most people just don't take off what they would have if they had a PTO bucket. And of course, if and when you leave the company, you get no payout.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Going to PTO gave me more days off, since I very rarely used sick time.

I wish we had that option. I've been maxed out on sick time for years (capped at 360 hours), since I'm rarely sick or injured.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Just make sure the PTO you get is not "unlimited PTO". IT sounds good, but it's not. It's a relatively new thing and it needs to go.

My company switched to “unlimited PTO” a couple years ago — curious to know your thoughts on why it’s a bad idea.

Is it because people typically take less PTO with this model? That’s the main ‘con’ I typically hear, but I haven’t experienced it myself.

Previously we would accrue vacation time, which rolled over each year, and the total amount was payable to the employee upon separation from the company (which isn’t the case for PTO … a nice benefit for the company).

We just want to PTO and I like it, especially since I will be retiring in a few months and will now be paid for my accumulated sick time. Under previous, there was only pay out for vacation and comp time, no sick time pay out (so you can imagine how many sick days the soon to be retired used in their last year or so). The max amount is capped per year and per payout at retirement. For me it will be payout on 364 hours, so an additional nice retirement check.

For those who abuse the hell out of their vacation/time off (the ones that use it as soon as they get it) it will be a nightmare, as they won't have any PTO time in the bank for sick time or emergency time off. Those people will be using unpaid leave.

We have:
1 Week Personal
2 days Floating Holidays
PTO increases with years of service.

All are equivalent in use, but PTO we can carry over 40hrs into the next year, but have to be taken in Q1.

I think at this point (9 years next month) I can take almost a full month off.

That is generous. We had vacation days. We had sick days but woe unto you if you took them. Three days sick required a Doctors note to return. Longer than five and you were put on disability. Sick time counted against your continued employment and advancement. You could use vacation a day at a time to cover sick days if the boss approved. I think 5 weeks vacation came after 25 years, but it may have been 30.
Absences within the first year and you were terminated

Another trend is the "floating holiday." Employers have adopted this in response to the increase in woke Federal holidays in recent years, MLK Day, Juneteenth, etc. Instead of increasing the number of corporate holidays to match, they pull one (often President's Day) and then "give it back" as a floater that the employee could use as desired, or let it evaporate if not used in the current calendar year. Some insist this be taken on specific days (e.g. when it would otherwise be a Federal holiday), others allow more flexibility.

Most companies carry accrued PTO on the balance sheet as a liability, accountants hate unforeseen changes to the balance sheet. That is why, when an employee with a PTO balance gets a merit increase, his PTO is paid out at his old rate, and his PTO balance zeroed.

It has been a long time since I managed employees, but I do not recall that labor law has much to say about PTO. Basically, employers can promote whatever policies they see fit subject to individual employment agreements, or collective bargaining agreements.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
Absences within the first year and you were terminated

My agency doesn't allow any new employees to use their vacation time until they've been here for a year. Otherwise, I know some folks would have tried to take off their first week.

The pros and cons are entirely up to the minutia of how they define the leave types. If they convert all your leave to PTO and don't add restrictions it may be beneficial. If they convert to PTO and limit how and when you can use it as well as how much time you can carry over it may be a nightmare. I think you need to see the nuts and bolts of their plan for converting everything to PTO before you can actually make a comparison.

Most employers are going to do whatever's easier and cheaper for them.

Current employer: "unlimited PTO" but in reality it's not because the bosses have to approve it and that's not going to happen; also no accrual of PTO.

Old employer: "unlimited PTO" but we did accrue PTO and it got paid out when we left.

First you’ll have to check your states laws on what happens at separation. Some states require your employer to pay any accrued and unused PTO at separation regardless of the reason. I left a company a few years ago and was paid over 300 hours.

The “unlimited PTO” sucks for that reason, if you are in a state that requires the employer to payout PTO. Since you don’t accrue anything, they don’t pay out anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

First you’ll have to check your states laws on what happens at separation. Some states require your employer to pay any accrued and unused PTO at separation regardless of the reason.

I worked for a company that wanted me to relocate -- they could bill my time to a client at a higher rate in Ohio, than they were billing for my time here in Florida. Neither I nor my wife wanted to relocate, so I said "No."

Company got pissy and decided that my services were no longer required and stated that they were regarding my decision as a resignation (they wanted me to resign, rather than fire me, so that they would not take a hit re unemployment).

"Nope," I said, I am not resigning. "Fire me if you want to."

They decided not to pay my accrued vacation time unless I resigned. I lawyered up, and within 24 hours of the company receiving a demand letter from the lawyer, FedEx was at my door with an overnight delivery of the check for my accrued vacation time.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
We are having a debate at work about PTO vs standard vacation time. We currently have standard vacation time with personal days and sick time.

We have between 2-5 weeks vacation depending on years of service. Everyone gets 3 personal days and 10 sick days each year. Personal days expire at end of the year. Sick days can build up to 90 days.

Only 1 week of vacation can be made into single days. The remainder must be taken as full weeks. Single vacation days also require 2 weeks notice.

As we have 24/7/365 staffing there are very few who get weekends off. The 2 weeks notice for single vacation days is a real killer.

Every time we bring up issues to the bosses they ramble off and just say we will go to PTO.

I’m starting to think this could actually be beneficial to us and we could have more single days off. As long as they don’t add weird restrictions.

So what are the pros and cons of PTO vs vacation time?

What is your occupation? What type of company/organization do you work for?

Are you salaried (exempt) or hourly (non-exempt)?

Does any of the sick leave vest, meaning it would paid out if you left?

Unless your state has specific rules, I would expect them to be completely able to make up whatever they want, and call it whatever they want.

For comparison, mainly because it’s interesting, I get:

4 hours a week of vacation (this sounds high but includes a day for each of all the city “holidays” because my job doesn’t get holidays off). So 26 eight-hour days off a year. It goes up again at my next 5 year mark I believe. Anything over 2x the annual accruement gets rolled into sick.

1.? sick hours a week. I never use sick, so I don’t really count, but it’s something minuscule like 1.2 hours. I can accrue an unlimited amount of sick. Two years of it can be applied to early retirement.

They pay us out at 100% on vacation, but a smaller percentage on sick.