While I can see a lot of benefits in knowing this information, I dont agree with anyone else knowing this information. What would it take for companies to come along and provide you the information without using the information?

Google tracking you link


Patents recently issued to Google provide a window into their development activities. While it’s no guarantee of a future product, it is a sure indication of what’s of interest to them. What we’ve given up in privacy to Google, Facebook, and others thus far is minuscule compared to what is coming if these companies get their way.

These patents tell us that Google is developing smart-home products that are capable of eavesdropping on us throughout our home in order to learn more about us and better target us with advertising. It goes much further than the current Google Home speaker that’s promoted to answer our questions and provide useful information, and the Google-owned Nest thermostat that measures environmental conditions in our home. What the patents describe are sensors and cameras mounted in every room to follow us and analyze what we’re doing throughout our home.

They describe how the cameras can even recognize the image of a movie star’s image on a resident’s t-shirt, connect it to the person’s browsing history, and send the person an ad for a new movie the star is in.

One patent, No. 10,114,351, reads, “According to embodiments of this disclosure, a smart-home environment may be provided with smart-device environment policies that use smart-devices to monitor activities within a smart-device environment, report on these activities, and/or provide smart-device control based upon these activities.”

So clearly they want to monitor us and report back what we are doing.

It goes on to describe an example in the usual patent legalese. But it’s worth providing here the exact description for you to see, in particular, the last sentence:

By way of example, the high-power processor 20 and the low-power processor 22 may detect when a location (e.g., a house or room) is occupied (i.e., includes a presence of a human), up to and including whether it is occupied by a specific person or is occupied by a specific number of people (e.g., relative to one or more thresholds). In one embodiment, this detection can occur, e.g., by analyzing microphone signals, detecting user movements (e.g., in front of a device), detecting openings and closings of doors or garage doors, detecting wireless signals, detecting an internet protocol (IP) address of a received signal, detecting operation of one or more devices within a time window, or the like. Moreover, the high-power processor 20 and the low-power processor 22 may include image recognition technology to identify particular occupants or objects.
In other words, the goal is to track us throughout the home — observing who is in each room, where we are moving, and what we are doing.

What’s of note is the patent that was awarded to one of Google’s star teams, associated with the development of the Nest thermostat — a breakthrough product with a microphone.

When Amazon first introduced their Alexa speaker, and Google followed with their own speaker, security experts warned that these devices could be turned around to spy on us, and that’s exactly what appears to be happening. While there are many good uses for adding sensors for home automation, the danger comes when they are being monitored and used by outside companies with an insatiable desire to know everything about us.

But there's even more. According to The Atlantic:

A second patent proposes a smart-home system that would help run the household, using sensors and cameras to restrict kids’ behavior. Parents could program a device to note if it overhears 'foul language' from children, scan internet usage for mature or objectionable content, or use 'occupancy sensors' to determine if certain areas of the house are accessed while they’re gone— for example, the liquor cabinet. The system could be set to 'change a smart lighting system color to red and flash the lights' as a warning to children or even power off lights and devices if they’re grounded.
“The language of these patents makes it clear that Google is acutely aware of the powers of inference it has already, even without cameras, by augmenting speakers to recognize the noises you make as you move around the house," The Atlantic wrote. "The auditory inferences are startling: Google’s smart-home system can infer 'if a household member is working' from 'an audio signature of keyboard clicking, a desk chair moving, and/or papers shuffling.' Google can make inferences on your mood based on whether it hears raised voices or crying, on when you’re in the kitchen based on the sound of the fridge door opening, on your dental hygiene based on 'the sounds and/or images of teeth brushing.'"

If you think our privacy is compromised now, just wait. Until there's some legislation passed to protect our privacy, there's no stopping companies such as Google and Facebook from learning everything about what we do and who we are and selling the information to advertisers, insurance companies, and eventually, any entity that will pay. After all, that's their business model.

Google should be shattered into a million pieces and scattered into the wind, it is an EVIL company with waaaaaaay too much power.

Way too much technology that can, and is more than likely being used against us. Smart phones, smart tv’s, camera systems connected to the internet through apps, the list goes on and on. I will never get one of the spy devices like Alexa or Google speaker, but at this point it probably doesn’t matter. The next generation won’t have any idea what they’ve lost.

Theres no law stopping them because we invite this shit into our lives and homes willingly and happily.

Outside of the forum I have very little online presence. I don't do Linked In, Facebook, etc and I don't have Alexa or Bixby or Siri or any of that.

Interesting. I didn’t know that Google owned Nest. Another reason to stay away.

Never ever in my house. Or my car.

quote:

Originally posted by FishOn:
Never ever in my house. Or my car.

You may not have a choice with your car - the manufacturers are already building in data collection capabilities because they see a financial windfall selling that information.

Hopefully there will always be the option of having a dumb/classic car that won’t sell your info to Google or other nefarious companies or have its crash data box possibly testify against you.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Hopefully there will always be the option of having a dumb/classic car that won’t sell your info to Google or other nefarious companies or have its crash data box possibly testify against you.

Oh, you mean your environmentally-objectionable gas guzzling, hydrocarbon-emitting vehicle? Retrofitted with a hybrid/electric power plant and ancillary electronics, maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Google should be shattered into a million pieces and scattered into the wind, it is an EVIL company with waaaaaaay too much power.

Please explain??? You want to get rid of their search algorithm? You want to get rid of Android? You want to get rid of GMail? I get where you're coming from but "shattered into a million pieces" would have some far reaching effects that I don't think you've thought all the way through. Let's go in and smash their server farms with sledge hammers!!! Any idea what sort of impact that would have?

It’s simple Bytes, pick up a fragile wine glass. Now drop it on a stone floor. That’s what I’d like to see happen to Google as a company. Figuratively, not literally.

how did we ever survive and function before Google?

if I could do my job without a smart phone, I'd go back to a flip phone

For as much as I love tech, my home is pretty dumb overall and will likely stay that way by design. Like most people, I can't ditch my cellular phone, but I don't have to open my home to the world....at least for now.

I can't wait for this to become reality so I can be a part of this great history with Google. I really hope they can just implant a chip in me so this would be easier for all parties. Fingers crossed for a chip I can ingest. I'm really partial to grape Koolaid, so I can't wait to drink Google's Koolaid like everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
It’s simple Bytes, pick up a fragile wine glass. Now drop it on a stone floor. That’s what I’d like to see happen to Google as a company. Figuratively, not literally.

Shut down their server farms and see what the fuck happens? Turn their stock value to zero and see what the fuck happens? Shut down their search engine and see what the fuck happens? Shut down GMail and see what the fuck happens? Shut down Adnroid and see what the fuck happens? I really don't think you've thought this all the way through

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
It’s simple Bytes, pick up a fragile wine glass. Now drop it on a stone floor. That’s what I’d like to see happen to Google as a company. Figuratively, not literally.

Shut down their server farms and see what the fuck happens? Turn their stock value to zero and see what the fuck happens? Shut down their search engine and see what the fuck happens? Shut down GMail and see what the fuck happens? Shut down Adnroid and see what the fuck happens? I really don't think you've thought this all the way through

Whoa, relax.

If Google goes away, other companies fill the void. We don't actually need Google.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
These patents tell us that Google is developing smart-home products that are capable of eavesdropping on us throughout our home in order to learn more about us and better target us with advertising.

This is why I do not have, and will not ever have, Google "smart" devices in our home.

Only thing "Google" in our home, right now, is a pair of inexpensive Android TV devices. I expect to eventually replace those with AppleTV devices. (You can say what you want about Apple, but at least they have a decent privacy policy.)

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
Shut down their server farms and see what the fuck happens? Turn their stock value to zero and see what the fuck happens? Shut down their search engine and see what the fuck happens? Shut down GMail and see what the fuck happens? Shut down Adnroid and see what the fuck happens? I really don't think you've thought this all the way through

Did you similarly lose it when the government threatened to break up Microsoft? Just curious, cuz you seem kinda wound up.

An article I read, lately, that's germane to this story: Privacy: The Killer App

Do you have a cell phone, and especially, a smart phone?

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Theres no law stopping them because we invite this shit into our lives and homes willingly and happily.

Outside of the forum I have very little online presence. I don't do Linked In, Facebook, etc and I don't have Alexa or Bixby or Siri or any of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
It’s simple Bytes, pick up a fragile wine glass. Now drop it on a stone floor. That’s what I’d like to see happen to Google as a company. Figuratively, not literally.

Shut down their server farms and see what the fuck happens? Turn their stock value to zero and see what the fuck happens? Shut down their search engine and see what the fuck happens? Shut down GMail and see what the fuck happens? Shut down Adnroid and see what the fuck happens? I really don't think you've thought this all the way through

The world will turn.

I was going to post this in a new thread but it fits very well here. Long article but worth the read.


The inventor of the World Wide Web, Sir Tim Berners-Lee (shown), believes that “the web has evolved into an engine of inequity and division; swayed by powerful forces who use it for their own agendas.” To correct that and “restore the power and agency of individuals on the web,” Berners-Lee is preparing to re-invent the web.

Due to the growing prevalence of the twin evils of data-mining and data-manipulation, the web — created to be a free and open platform — has instead become a place where users find themselves robbed of both their privacy and easy access to reliable information on which they could base sound decisions. Take as just one example, the Cambridge Analytica breach of Facebook last year. By the time the dust settled and the smoke cleared, at least 50 million (and possibly as many as 87 million) users had their data harvested and used to manipulate their (and their friends’) votes in the 2016 presidential election.

And while that example points to Facebook, the reality is that the social media giant is far from alone. Other tech behemoths, including Google, Microsoft, and others, are also guilty of practicing “surveillance as a feature,” wherein users are tricked into handing over the digital keys to their lives in exchange for “benefits” such as easy syncing of calendars and address books. As a matter of course, these companies then misuse that data for their own benefit. With Google, Facebook, and Twitter routinely filtering search results and users’ timelines in favor of political candidates and policies favored by the decision makers at those companies, it is no wonder that the inventor of the web said that he has reached a “tipping point” where he sees that “people are reading stuff which is complete garbage and they're believing it, and they vote.”

When asked specifically about that statement, Berners-Lee said, “Science tells us what to believe are facts," adding, "And democracy relies on facts. So democracy relies on science.” He went on to say, “People don't follow links from one website to another, they sit on one website, and what they see is determined by the people who code that social network.”

While this writer may take exception with Berners-Lee’s use of the word “democracy” (the United States is a republic, a government of law wherein the rights of the individual is protected regardless of the whims of the majority), his point is valid. As Mark Twain is quoted as saying — though, ironically, he may never have said it — “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” When people glean a disproportionate amount of what they think they know from a small handful of platforms — and those platforms are operated by people who are only too glad to manipulate the flow of information while harvesting users’ data to analyze it and use it to further manipulate those users’ thought processes — the very foundation on which the value of voting rests is at stake.

To rectify the web’s transmogrification “into an engine of inequity and division; swayed by powerful forces who use it for their own agendas,” Berners-Lee is preparing to launch “Web 3.0” and has written a Contract for the Web to express the digital rights of users.

His new “Contract for the Web” begins by laying out what he sees as “Core Principles” stating:

The web was designed to bring people together and make knowledge freely available. Everyone has a role to play to ensure the web serves humanity. By committing to the following principles, governments, companies and citizens around the world can help protect the open web as a public good and a basic right for everyone.

The Contract addresses the responsibilities of governments, companies, and citizens and states that those governments which sign onto the Contract will:

Ensure everyone can connect to the internet so that anyone, no matter who they are or where they live, can participate actively online.

Keep all of the internet available, all of the time so that no one is denied their right to full internet access.

Respect people’s fundamental right to privacy so everyone can use the internet freely, safely and without fear.

Signatory companies are obligated to:

Respect consumers’ privacy and personal data so people are in control of their lives online.

Develop technologies that support the best in humanity and challenge the worst so the web really is a public good that puts people first.

Citizens — who have the most to gain from implementation of the Contract — would agree to:

Be creators and collaborators on the web so the web has rich and relevant content for everyone.

Build strong communities that respect civil discourse and human dignity so that everyone feels safe and welcome online.

Fight for the web so the web remains open and a global public resource for people everywhere, now and in the future.

The government of France has already signed on as have both Facebook and Google. Of course, given the propensity of both Facebook and Google to routinely break promises related to privacy policies, it is likely only a matter of time before this contract is added to the long and growing list.

Berners-Lee — seeming to recognize that a “Contract” is not enough — has already begun launching what he says some are describing as “Web 3.0.” Web 1.0 was the original World Wide Web, which was designed to open the Internet up to citizens as a free and open platform of communication, commerce, and exchange. In the early days of Web 1.0, it was more than a little like a digital Wild West — an Electronic Frontier (from which the Electronic Frontier Foundation (dedicated to preserving digital liberty) drew its name. Web 2.0 is the current model, which has been created by the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and others hijacking Web 1.0 and mutating it into a place where corporations have an easy hunting ground in which to harvest and manipulate users’ data. Web 3.0 would be a deliberate attempt to protect web users and their rights.

To accomplish that, Berners-Lee has launched the Solid project at MIT. The name “Solid” is derived from "social linked data.” The Solid website explains:

Solid is an exciting new project led by Prof. Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the World Wide Web, taking place at MIT. The project aims to radically change the way Web applications work today, resulting in true data ownership as well as improved privacy.

The site also describes Solid as “a proposed set of conventions and tools for building decentralized social applications based on Linked Data principles” and says that Solid offers:

True data ownership —

Users should have the freedom to choose where their data resides and who is allowed to access it. By decoupling content from the application itself, users are now able to do so.

Modular design —

Because applications are decoupled from the data they produce, users will be able to avoid vendor lock-in, seamlessly switching between apps and personal data storage servers, without losing any data or social connections.

Reusing existing data —

Developers will be able to easily innovate by creating new apps or improving current apps, all while reusing existing data that was created by other apps.

And because Solid is an open-source platform (meaning, among other things, that the source code is freely available), believing these claims is not merely a matter of trust; one can both trust and verify. One company involved in the development of Solid is inrupt. The company’s website explains the value of Solid, stating:

It’s time to reset the balance of power on the web and reignite its true potential.

When Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the web, it was intended for everyone. The excitement and creativity of its early days were driven from the notion that we can all participate — and the impact was world-changing.

But the web has shifted from its original promise — and it’s time to make a change.

We can still unlock the true promise of the web by decentralizing the power that’s currently centralized in the hands of a few. How? By using the power of Solid.

Solid is the technically potent open-source platform built to decentralize the web. Inrupt is the company that’s helping to fuel Solid’s success.

While this is far from the first time someone has tried to re-decentralize the web, Berners-Lee believes the time has come, saying he predicts a “big backlash against the mistreatment of personal data” and a “realisation that people should control their data.” He said this leads him to predict “a revolution” which is “starting right now.”


https://www.thenewamerican.com...s-privacy-revolution