quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
... Probably too late for you since you're a are older but it can be done. My friend will most likely be moving to a poor country in Central America to become a missionary so his kids will grow up free of the gizmos.

I agree it can be done, and surely it's better to start before they're teens with VERY clear boundaries. Not trying to dis your friend, but I can tell you it's not gonna be as easy for him when they're 16 than when they're 6. I was in a pretty good place at six too. And I suspect devices and gizmos will likely be found wherever he goes unless he's very rural.

I've been researching for the last day or so. 8 hours a day is about the norm. Not ideal, just the norm.

For my plan, I'm "roughing it in" now, I'm doing the following:

Curfew: We use Apple Screentime to set a "lights-out" sort of end time on devices. Currently it's set to 10pm. I think I'm going to set an earlier curfew than I have now to give them time without screen blue light before bed.

Digital Detox: I'm going to select a day a weekend, or a long period, like 12 hours on a day a weekend, where there are no devices. Giving time for outside activities, or reading. I'm even allowing for TV (preferably as a family) as we have one in the living room, not one in each room.

My current debate which I've not settled on is screen time max. I'm not even sure it makes sense and if I'm going to do it. Or maybe I do it as a "crazy too much" max. And if I do, I'm thinking of a weaning. Looking at the averages and pulling it back two or three hours now, or trying to decide on what the max should be now and dropping it. I don't think x hours a day is realistic. For example, I watch a movie on a rainy Saturday, and an hour of YouTube. Now I want to practice piano, or Japanese. That could be six or seven hours. But that doesn't seem out of bounds to me.

Debate debate. I'm looking for marked improvement, without unrealistic goals and a war, followed by lifestyle shock, more isolation and boredom.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: r0gue,

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Do you have a NAS with virtual machine capability?

I do not. We do backups to externals periodically, and keep files and photos in a cloud backup serice.

Then a Raspberry Pi is the way to go.

Apologies if this is a bit off topic. It's less to do with screen time and more to do with limiting what's coming in.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
I'm even allowing for TV (preferably as a family) as we have one in the living room, not one in each room.

I struggle with the screen time thing too with my kids. Curious, do you consider "device time" different than "TV time"?

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
I'm even allowing for TV (preferably as a family) as we have one in the living room, not one in each room.

I struggle with the screen time thing too with my kids. Curious, do you consider "device time" different than "TV time"?

I do. Particularly if they are doing it with others as a family. But even if not, it's in a common location (in our house anyway). Following a storyline from beginning to end is a little better than the fragmented clickity-click horseshit that is now so predominant on the Internet. And at least in TV, the AI in the data center isn't pushing my kids buttons and programing them to an agenda.

I think it comes down to basic parenting. I recall when kids spent too much time practicing their skateboard tricks or trying to beat one another in hula hoop contests. Every child is different. It is a matter of setting limits. What happened to reading books? Just remove the electronic devices for a period of time.

We are trying to get the 11 year old son down to 1 to 1.5 hours max, and none on Sundays.

I feel your pain!
I have a step-daughter who is almost 13.

It is really sad, we have a beautiful yard, an additional recreational property, fun toys for outside and inside, excellent streaming TV, Movies.
But the only thing that matters to her is that fucking iPhone.
We tried being nice and have her self moderate iPhone usage.
But it soon became reality that eventually you must be a Parent, even if it is painful.

If she isn't internet moderated, she would lay in bed all day/every day and be on the iPhone for 15+ hours daily.
We also live outside the urban area and she has no friends nearby.
She is due to return to school this coming Thursday for five days a week in person learning.
Sports begins today. (tennis)

This is what I did. I have Spectrum Internet. The router is mine. (Netgear)
I don't use the built it router in the cable modem provided by Spectrum.
The Netgear router is easily configured.

I set up all her devices on the "Guest" Channels. (except for the school provided Chromebook)
All the "Adult" owned devices are on one or both of the regular WiFi channels, or hard-wired.
The "Guest" channels passwords are easy and can be remembered by children.
The "Regular" channels passwords are complex.

I put the Netgear Nighthawk app on my Android phone.

I can turn the "Guest" Channels on and off with a push of a button on my Android phone.

The "default" state of the "Guest" Channels is off. I turn it off every night at her bedtime. Her iPhone comes out of her bedroom and is placed on the dining room table every night.
(so it's visible and out of reach) I check for the iPhone nighttime parking position every night when I let the dog out for her business.

The step-daughter's household chores and outside playtime/outside chores/and schoolwork MUST be completed before the "Guest" Channels get turned on.

Having her internet availability with pushbutton on/off capability stops all of her unpleasantness. Be unpleasant? Internet is OFF.
Didn't do her chores/clean her room/clean her bathroom/didn't finish schoolwork? Internet is OFF.
I set up her school provided Chromebook on the regular channel, and take daily possession of the device when schoolwork is completed. (this prevents unauthorized "surfing")

It's close to perfect as long as you can stomach being the "Internet Nazi"

The "World Health Organization" (yes, a sketchy group) recommends 2 Hours of screen time maximum for teen aged children.

UPDATE:

So much good advice in this thread. I took a quick cal into a trusted friend who does family therapy and by and large got the feedback that I am on the right approach. My approach is that there are MANY things wrong in my family, and that this is a clear example, and perhaps symptom. My daughter once asked, "what else am I supposed to do"? And to a degree, I get it. It's cloudy, cold, no real close friends outside of school and family. Half her siblings moved off to college (that one I feel as well). This damn pandemic, which stopped church folks band. No high school activities short of academics in class. Part of it is the pandemic, but if I don't act, it's all on me. We need to up our family game.

!!! Digital Detox !!!: Never underestimate the power of a good buzzword. Suffice to say ALL seem to agree that these devices and the process of interacting with them are addictive. It's not just social medial (please include YouTube in that fellas as it's AI powered to hold your attention), but it's also just the notifications and general (small) high you get when you pick it up and get a bright light. In short -- We are ALL going on a serious detox. Yesterday morning we took both of the kids devices. It was painful. Also note that my wife and I did not touch our phones all night. We put them down. Put them away. Set the example, all the time.

The Plan: It goes beyond the detox. We MUST fill that time in. First, I'm declaring the pandemic over. What I mean is, anyone or place that is not extending opportunity to reengage at this time is being replaced. Her piano teacher is still under a rock. We're going to find a new one. Church best have a plan for the band, or I'll be looking for options.

Replacement Activities: We need the kids to pick an activity that will put them with other kids and allow them to have friends and frankly, to consume time. Preferably something on a schedule like the YMCA swim team or karate. Also we need a decent list of family activities and we (my wife and I) need to recognize that our jobs, and chores and all this adult responsibility shit need to take a back seat to these. Meaning, "Oh geeze, it's almost 7pm on a Saturday and I've ignored my kids all day long"... "Let's order a pizza and then we'll drink a bottle of wine by the fire tonight while they chill (use smartphones) in their room for the remaining 3 hours of the day". Yes, it's on us. That's gotta stop.

Early results may be over-optimistically inaccurate, but while my wife made dinner last night, my son took the lead and asked if I'd get the bikes out. I filled the tires, checked them over, and he coaxed my daughter to go for a ride. We were blessed with a lovely sunny evening. When they got home, we ate dinner. I asked my wife to leave the kitchen as-is, and instead, we all took the dog for a walk and hung out in the driveway. My wife had suggested games. My son seized the opportunity to suggest Wii. And I took that compromise. It's not about living like the Amish. It's about living like a family. We played Mario Kart. Which is crazy hard and makes my head spin. But we did it. We also watched 1/2 an episode of Sherlock and then off to bed by 10pm. And improvement for all of us.

Praying for many days of similar success.

I share all of this because I think I've found the golden truth of the problem. It's easily on us, as adults. We built the landscape and established the rules without thinking and planning. And then we want to correct them all at once, by changing just the "device" aspect, and not the rest of it. Which is hard. It's a complex thing, and will take work.
Let's work it.

One final note about YouTube: This is the second time I've found a child who'd wandered into some REALLY sketchy shit on YouTube. I'm absolutely convinced that this is horrifyingly prevalent in American youth culture. Police the heck out of that access. Seriously, YouTube AI is misleading these kids. My feed was all aviation and car maintenance. Theirs is late teen bloggers seriously challenging and denigrating all of our values. My advice?... KILL IT. YouTube IS social media. Whether you post and comment or not. It IS the same business model and affect.

I may be scarce/sporadic coming back. I was going to go downstairs and hit the home gym, but as I've had success, I wanted to thank you guys, and encourage you guys. It's NOT easy. Be sure to address the whole spectrum as mentioned. Fill the time with family. Be ULTRA present whenever they'll let you. Love on em a lot, and then love on em some more. Don't fight them. Don't be baited in by their anger. Their anger will subside. It will spur a reaction. We had some slamming doors. But after that subsided, last night was magical. Praying I can keep that going in the right direction and also that I can build on it with meaningful activities.

Good luck guys!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: r0gue,