I have CO detectors in all bedrooms and the living room. With a gas water heater, furnace, and especially fireplace, it'd be insane not to.

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Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
I read where a mother and daughter in Texas died from running the car in the garage with the door closed for warmth. Who actually doesn't know that that is dangerous?! The news here in Winston Salem keeps repeating the same ridiculous warnings. "Don't bring your BBQ inside to heat the house, don't burn your camp stove in the kitchen, etc.

We've been spared from significant power outages this time, so no known fatalities so far. But back during the 2009 ice storm, when most of the area was out of power for 3-7 days, there were a number of deaths due to CO poisoning from things like running the car inside the garage to warm up, or burning a charcoal grill in the living room for heat and cooking.

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Originally posted by radioman:

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Remember, *anything* which burns, puts off carbon monoxide.
(Natural, LP - propane, fuel oil, kerosene, wood, gasoline, diesel)

Why is it that millions of people use a Propane or Natural gas stove on a regular basis, and nothing happens. Then all of he sudden there is a power outage, and we are warned against using "open flame" cooking devices in the house that use natural gas or Propane tanks???

Honestly, this never made sense to me. The BBQ grills I can see, but not things like camp stoves that are no different than your stove-top gas / propane range.

During cold/freezing temps, people will remain inside for several days at a time thus they limit air circulation; you know opening/closing doors to the outside. Blocking the drafts around their doors and windows, and running their heaters/stoves/ovens longer than normal is not unusual. Most of the time, carbon monoxide poisoning occurs in small, confined spaces, where the person has bunkered themselves-in or, they've got whatever devices cranked-up to ridiculous levels.

I feel there are people out here who already feel that utility providers are no longer reliable and trending worse. I know people that are installing generators at home (larger generacs - 18KW) even though they live in urban areas.

Wouldn't it be ironic that, in the quest for green energy, it actually forces very high rates of home generator installations?

Why don't Powerwalls get re-charged from solar during the day? Couldn't they be as long as the solar is disconnected from the grid?

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Originally posted by konata88:
I feel there are people out here who already feel that utility providers are no longer reliable and trending worse.

Oh, hell: I've felt that way for years. I wouldn't have our computer and network gear running w/o UPS'. We've had a backup generator for probably twenty-five years.

It's a gasoline-powered generator, too, because I don't want to be at the mercy of a natural gas outage.

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Originally posted by Sigfest:
And a reminder to those few who have a Pulse Oximeter to check Oxygen saturation levels. The PO measures the saturation of Hemoglobin. It does not measure what it is saturated with.

Good point - Our local volunteer fire department just bought a similar device that measures the CO concentration in the blood that a pulse-ox meter will not. It was about $5,000 but an important device for firefighters coming out of burning buildings.

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Originally posted by radioman:


Why is it that millions of people use a Propane or Natural gas stove on a regular basis, and nothing happens. Then all of he sudden there is a power outage, and we are warned against using "open flame" cooking devices in the house that use natural gas or Propane tanks???

Honestly, this never made sense to me. The BBQ grills I can see, but not things like camp stoves that are no different than your stove-top gas / propane range.

Besides what Ensigmatic said, when people are using those things to heat the room they don't have windows open to let in fresh air and oxygen and let out the carbon monoxide. So the carbon monoxide builds up until you drown in it.

Dumb question: how effect is the hood vent in removing CO over high btu gas range while cooking? What about gas oven?

Is the hood vent useful for CO or just aerosoled oil and smells?

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Originally posted by konata88:
I feel there are people out here who already feel that utility providers are no longer reliable and trending worse. I know people that are installing generators at home (larger generacs - 18KW) even though they live in urban areas.

Wouldn't it be ironic that, in the quest for green energy, it actually forces very high rates of home generator installations?

Anybody living in the Sierras over the last 3-years, dealing with forest fires and resulting rolling blackouts in the Fall, has gone out and bought generators. Last Summer, Costco's around the state wised-up and had pallets of portable Generac and Yamaha generators available. Dealers for Honda generators were reporting record sales.

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Originally posted by konata88:
Dumb question: how effect is the hood vent in removing CO over high btu gas range while cooking? What about gas oven?

Is the hood vent useful for CO or just aerosoled oil and smells?

The first question would be: Is your range hood actually vented to the outside through a duct?

Many aren't, and are purely for trapping some of the aerosolized oils and smoke particles in the filters before the air is recirculated into the kitchen. If it's unvented, then it will have zero effect on CO buildup.

But as mentioned above, the CO emissions from a properly functioning unvented gas stove or gas fireplace are minimal, provided you're not running them 24/7.

Mine is vented through the roof. But the hood is off brand, contractor cheapie. Not a high CFM like viking hoods.

I guess then my question remains how best to test that my unvented heater and range are functioning properly. Or is it the norm to just assume the CO monitors are working properly? Not sure what the false negative rate is for these devices.

I run the space heater for perhaps a couple hours at time, but usually not every day.

I have a whole house fan. Even in winter, I open some windows and turn it on. Just to change the air. Would that be effective in evacuating any CO in the house?

I passed out from CO. Very lucky and came to quickly, and got outside. After being outside for over an hour, I saw that my boots were not tided. I had been tying my shoes for about 60 years at this point, but there I stood with a lace in each hand and had no idea what to do. It was a very strange feeling! I just had nothing.
Rod

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Originally posted by radioman:

Why is it that millions of people use a Propane or Natural gas stove on a regular basis, and nothing happens. Then all of he sudden there is a power outage, and we are warned against using "open flame" cooking devices in the house that use natural gas or Propane tanks???

Honestly, this never made sense to me. The BBQ grills I can see, but not things like camp stoves that are no different than your stove-top gas / propane range.

Intermittent use for cooking vs constant use for primary heating.

This is the reason you can NOT use unvented gas heaters for your primary heat source.

Question: Is it best to place the CO alarm near the floor or ceiling? My guess is floor, but would like to hear from you folks.

Twice during outages I've had to use the burners on the gas stove for heat. I've made sure the nearby kitchen window was open just a tad and never ran them for more than an hour or two at a time. Was I doing it right?

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Originally posted by apprentice:
Question: Is it best to place the CO alarm near the floor or ceiling? My guess is floor, but would like to hear from you folks.

CO by itself is very slightly lighter than air, but mixes readily with air and distributes itself throughout the room. Therefore it doesn't sink or rise significantly, and there's no benefit to specifically putting them near the floor.

Just don't put them immediately adjacent to gas appliances, or in very humid areas like bathrooms.

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Originally posted by mcrimm:
We had a friend who had his house re-roofed in late summer. One of the laborers inadvertently compressed the exhaust vent for the furnace.

Roofers are good for messing up venting systems.

They like installing two 90 degree elbows on PVC vent pipes, *thinking* they are *fixing* something. When in fact, they're creating a future problem. The exhaust vapor can now recirculate into the intake pipe. The vapor now freezes in the intake and blocks the pipe, which stops the heating equipment from operating.

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Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Roofers are good for messing up venting systems.

Yep. When I had the roof on my last house replaced from hail damage a few years back, the roofing crew either lost, damaged, or forgot to order one last roof vent cap than they needed, so they rummaged around in their van, grabbed a plastic dryer vent cover intended for a wall, and threw it on the roof along with a bunch of caulk.

The owner of the company was less than impressed with that crew when I brought that to his attention.

^^^ sweet... real geniuses there!

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Originally posted by konata88:

Thanks. I have a few CO detectors. They have never gone off and always show 0 peak level. Something like these: https://www.costco.com/first-a...oduct.100715824.html

Are these good? I have no way to test accuracy. But maybe I should replace them - not sure how old they are, at least several years I think. But made in china so who knows if they even work.

But I'm wondering about spot testing. I see these things (excam link and one I found on Prime) but don't know how good they are, especially for the price. I want to check how much CO my range and my space heater are generating.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Check the back of the detector for alarm response data.
Any UL listed alarm can NOT sound an alarm under 35 ppm. There are only a couple companies who sell alarms which sound at 9 ppm and you have to seek them out on the web. Stores dont like selling devices which are not UL listed.

Testing with an actual meter is the best way to check for CO problems. A meter with a pump to constantly pull a sample across the sensor is best.

Another thing to keep in mind. CO detectors have sensors with a short service life. The older detectors should be replaced, the recent and most newer detectors are good for 7-10 yrs. So buying a new detector every 5 yrs to add to the group is a good idea. This way you'll always a have a fresh sensor. Most detectors will not alert you when the sensor is bad, so you'll never know.

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Originally posted by Sigfest:
And a reminder to those few who have a Pulse Oximeter to check Oxygen saturation levels. The PO measures the saturation of Hemoglobin. It does not measure what it is saturated with. As stated earlier, Carbon Monoxide has an affinity for saturating hemoglobin that is greater than Oxygen. You can be dying of Carbon Monoxide poisoning and have great Sats, and be pink. Not the dusky blue look of someone with a low O2 level. It is why Emetgency depts don’t rely on a Pulse Ox if they suspect carbon monoxide poisoning. They will will do a more accurate blood gas. (ABG). Be careful if you rely on a pulse ox for for daily sat readings.

Thanks for posting this information, very valuable!

When I was building my house 25 years ago, I has using a propane salamander.
Working on it evenings, probably 5 hours a night, everything seemed alright. I then came down with flu like symptoms, thought nothing of it, it was flu season. Took a couple days off work, feeling better a couple days later, I went to work on the house again.

Three days later, flu symptoms again! WTF? It was then that the light in my brain said.... you dumb fu8k, it's CO poisoning!! I then bought a digital CO detector for out there, and worked with it a little colder for the rest of the winter.

Thw wife wanted new smoke detectors recently so I installed a pair of these. One in the hallway outside the bedrooms and one in the basement fairly close to the furnace and hot water heater. They are both a smoke detector and a CO detector.

https://www.amazon.com/S3000BW...=8-9&tag=googhydr-20

It seemed, growing up, in all out hoses we had unvented wall mounted gas heaters, especially in the bathroom. As soon as it started to cool off in the fall my mother would turn these heaters on and they stayed on 24 hours a day for the duration of cold weather. I remember, at times when I was sick and running a fever with chills how wonderful and toasty it felt to stand next to the heater in the small bathroom. Maybe that affected me and no one realized it at the time. Would certainly be a possible explanation for my nuttiness on occasion!