Carbon monoxide (The silent killer) is odorless, tasteless, invisible and undetectable by the human body.

Increase in cases surge in Texas.
Several hospitalized, few dead... trying to stay warm.

Remember, *anything* which burns, puts off carbon monoxide.
(Natural, LP - propane, fuel oil, kerosene, wood, gasoline, diesel)

Increase in Carbon monoxide poisoning cases
https://youtu.be/Wc6lK8Jq2tc

***What are the symptoms of CO poisoning? The most common symptoms of CO poisoning are headache, dizziness, weakness, upset stomach, vomiting, chest pain, and confusion. CO symptoms are often described as “flu-like.” If you breathe in a lot of CO it can make you pass out or kill you.***

I’ve been using a NG heater in my living room for years now. It gets the room pretty toasty. It can raise the room temp from 68 to 75 pretty quickly, say in about 30-60 minutes. Pushes gas through small holes in ceramic plates. Don’t see a flame, just glowing ceramics. Always wondered how safe it is. How can I measure?

Some CO detectors have digital displays to show the level of concentration.

Everybody needs one or two.

Unvented heaters will put off 1-3 ppm of CO when operating correctly.
9 ppm is the limit for a given space for a 24hr period.

When they get dirty, they will no longer have complete combustion and can produce large amounts of CO.

Cheapest (read, not the best choice) is a digital Kidde detector.
However, it will not protect you from low levels of CO. 35 ppm is the level in which it sounds an alarm.
35 ppm is the limit for a given space for a 8hr period.

CO experts is one of few companies who offer real protection against CO poisoning.
Expensive, but they do the complete job, not just part of it like the cheap detectors.
COexperts.ca most sound an alarm at 9 ppm.
Can be bought here: https://www.trutechtools.com/CO-Experts

Or testing with a service instrument:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Te...-Meter-0-to-1999-ppm

https://www.trutechtools.com/PortableCOMetersAlarms

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ki...y-21029915/100045210

Anyone with a fossil fuel appliance should have a CO detector.

I am not a MD, but this is my understanding of CO poisoning...

It kills because it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood. The CO bond is 100 times stronger than the O bond, essentially taking that blood cell out of service. It takes the body a long time to get that CO removed. This is why simply getting to fresh air may not be enough, requiring medical intervention to save you, if they can. The strong CO bond also explains why even long term exposure at lower levels can be fatal due to the accumulative effects of CO exposure.

Do NOT operate your grill in an enclosed space! Grills were made for the patio, not for inside the house.

I saw this youtube video about a week or so ago.

A private pilot, while flying, got carbon monoxide poisoning. He was aware of the dangers of it but as it progressed he was not able to mentally process it. He became unconscious and woke up in a snowy field. It's a miracle the plane didn't auger in, it just sort of pancake landed. He's lucky to have survived the aftermath when he woke up in freezing weather, etc.

IIRC the video correctly, I'm not going to watch it again now for that detail, he ended up being treated in a hyberbaric chamber.

It's a 40-some minute video which I found to be fascinating. I'm not a pilot, you probably aren't either, so ignore the aviation specific details, but the info of how the carbon monoxide poisoning occurred and proceeded through the time of his incident.

We can all take a lot away from his experience.

He had carbon monoxide detector equipment aboard but it wasn’t working properly. He was well aware and educated on CO poisoning but as it took effect on him he just wasn’t able to mentally process and do what should be done. Very insidious.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/MfzfP5CZBj8
.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I’ve been using a NG heater in my living room for years now. It gets the room pretty toasty. It can raise the room temp from 68 to 75 pretty quickly, say in about 30-60 minutes. Pushes gas through small holes in ceramic plates. Don’t see a flame, just glowing ceramics. Always wondered how safe it is. How can I measure?

They sell Carbon Monixide and fire detectors all in one at places like Lowe's. With any kind of combustible heating source it's good to have them spread throughout the house. For about $30 each +/-

quote:

Remember, *anything* which burns, puts off carbon monoxide.
(Natural, LP - propane, fuel oil, kerosene, wood, gasoline, diesel)

Why is it that millions of people use a Propane or Natural gas stove on a regular basis, and nothing happens. Then all of he sudden there is a power outage, and we are warned against using "open flame" cooking devices in the house that use natural gas or Propane tanks???

Honestly, this never made sense to me. The BBQ grills I can see, but not things like camp stoves that are no different than your stove-top gas / propane range.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I saw this youtube video about a week or so ago.

A private pilot, while flying, got carbon monoxide poisoning. He was aware of the dangers of it but as it progressed he was not able to mentally process it. He became unconscious and woke up in a snowy field. It's a miracle the plane didn't auger in, it just sort of pancake landed. He's lucky to have survived the aftermath when he woke up in freezing weather, etc.

Don’t have time for the video right now, but if it is a video of the case I read about years ago, the guy was in a Mooney (small, low wing single engine) and nodded off due to CO poisoning. The plane happened to be trimmed just right and made as perfect a gear up landing as can be made.

The heater in most small single engine aircraft looks a bit like a small muffler with projections sticking off of it (sorta like a heat sink, but usually rods instead of fins) on an exhaust pipe with metal “shell” around it. Outside air is ducted through the shell into the cabin. The inspection of the heater is an important part of any annual or 100 hour inspection as any cracks introduce exhaust directly into the cabin.

I can’t swear to it, but I think the old air cooled Volkswagen Bugs had a similar system.

Here is an example of what can happen in an unusual cold snap.

Back when I lived in Anchorage, we had a cold snap where it was running 35F cooler than normal (i.e. wind had shifted out of the north instead of the typical west or southwest). It was also my first winter with the new humidifier installed on the furnace which kept everything perfectly comfortable.

I flipped on my trusty gas fireplace in the great room and went upstairs for several minutes. As I descended the stairs, I noticed my two cats were walking funny and I thought "what are those goof balls up to now?" A couple steps lower and I quickly recognized that I had just walked into a low oxygen environment. I ran across the room to the 1/2 bath where I flipped on the exhaust fan and then ran across to the other side of the room where I hastily opened the sliding glass door. Next, I turned off gas fireplace.

After, I got the oxygen levels back up and determined the cats were OK:

I started investigating why the gas fireplace had not exhausted the fumes. I discovered, the fireplace's exhaust vent completely iced closed.

When I thawed the exhaust vent, I discovered a draft moving across the great room towards the bottom corner of the fireplace. This is when I put 2+2 together and realized that air was leaking out of the house via the fireplace. The fireplace had never frozen shut previously because past winters I didn't have a humidifier. Now, between the leak and the perfectly humidified air it was a recipe for creating an iceball on the exhaust vent. Obviously, I fixed the leak.

I had always kept a CO detector in my bedroom, but from then on out I always kept a CO detector in the room with the fireplace.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

VWs had an actual gasoline fueled heater as an option, IIRC. The OEM heater was on the exhaust. I investigated a couple of CO deaths. They were caused by furnaces with blocked flues or chimneys.
A CO alarm would have saved them. If you dont have one, get one. And they have an expiration date too, so they need to replaced from time to time.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I saw this youtube video about a week or so ago.

A private pilot, while flying, got carbon monoxide poisoning. He was aware of the dangers of it but as it progressed he was not able to mentally process it. He became unconscious and woke up in a snowy field. It's a miracle the plane didn't auger in, it just sort of pancake landed. He's lucky to have survived the aftermath when he woke up in freezing weather, etc.

Don’t have time for the video right now, but if it is a video of the case I read about years ago, the guy was in a Mooney (small, low wing single engine) and nodded off due to CO poisoning. The plane happened to be trimmed just right and made as perfect a gear up landing as can be made.

The heater in most small single engine aircraft looks a bit like a small muffler with projections sticking off of it (sorta like a heat sink, but usually rods instead of fins) on an exhaust pipe with metal “shell” around it. Outside air is ducted through the shell into the cabin. The inspection of the heater is an important part of any annual or 100 hour inspection as any cracks introduce exhaust directly into the cabin.

I can’t swear to it, but I think the old air cooled Volkswagen Bugs had a similar system.

That’s him. An engine backfire ruptured the heater/exhaust piece and that was the culprit.

We had a friend who had his house re-roofed in late summer. One of the laborers inadvertently compressed the exhaust vent for the furnace. A month or so later, when the first day of cold weather came, he lit the pilot light on the furnace and set the thermostat before heading off to work. He came home for lunch to find both his wife and dog dead. He had talked to her 15 minutes earlier and she complained of a headache.

It is amazing to me how ill prepared for cold weather and / or foolish people who live in warm environs can actually be. Growing up in the snowbelt I guess I took my knowledge and the shared understanding for granted.

I read where a mother and daughter in Texas died from running the car in the garage with the door closed for warmth. Who actually doesn't know that that is dangerous?! The news here in Winston Salem keeps repeating the same ridiculous warnings. "Don't bring your BBQ inside to heat the house, don't burn your camp stove in the kitchen, etc.

I'd ask if people are really that stupid, but the fact that they are giving these warnings means that this is shit people have actually done before.

If you don’t have a CO detector...get one. If you do have one and it alarms what are your next steps? I’ll tell you....as we deal with these multiple times a week at work, they are a very common call for us.
1. Call the FD.....they have meters that actively monitor air as they walk through the house.
2. Step outside until the FD arrives.
3. Change nothing in the house....don’t shut shit off or open the doors/windows....the FD needs to first confirm the presence of CO and if it’s there....they will systematically eliminate and also identify the source.....they can’t do that if you aired out the house! Leave it alone...your safely outside awaiting their arrival.

It’s common for us to find 0 ppm CO....detectors do fail and when they do, they alarm...the sensors don’t last forever. You won’t know that until someone (FD) meters the house with current calibrated equipment. Never second guess your detectors ..... I’ve seen multiple fatalities from CO...both intentional and accidental.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
Why is it that millions of people use a Propane or Natural gas stove on a regular basis, and nothing happens. Then all of he sudden there is a power outage, and we are warned against using "open flame" cooking devices in the house that use natural gas or Propane tanks???

Honestly, this never made sense to me.

Those warnings are against using them for home emergency heating, no? When people use gas open-flame cooking devices to cook, they're generally operated for only a relatively short time. The range-tops, in particular. Ovens for longer, but still not 24x7, which happens when people use them for emergency heating.

Perhaps a compounding problem is reduced air exchange in the home when the normal heating appliance is down? Gas- and oil-fired furnaces cause replacement air to enter the home. So do fireplaces and wood- and pellet-burning stoves. Electric and geothermal don't, but neither do they produce CO.

We have a CO detector with a digital readout in the house. It's just outside the master bedroom and near the wood-burning stove. The only time it ever budges is when I run the generator in the attached garage during a power outage. (I keep a window open out there, the garage door cracked, and there are open soffit, ridge, and hip vents.) It's never gone above 9ppm.

I also have a CO detector with a digital readout in the garage, for when I run the propane torpedo heater out there. It's never budged when running that heater, but there's a lot of air exchange going on in there. It gets pretty high when the generator's running, but it's never gone into alarm yet.

One thing to bear in mind - many of us SF members are fortunate in many ways. We are educated, intelligent, prepared, vigilant, etc. Many of us are also very secure financially.

Now look at folks who cannot afford a generator, and have never lived in a climate north of the Mason-Dixon. Single digit temps and no heat source may appear more threatening than running your car to try and generate some heat. Are they actually going to freeze to death? Probably not - but I bet they think they are. Let's not confuse stupidity with ignorance and fear. (although as we have seen from COVID - there is a very fine line between those words)

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
They sell Carbon Monixide and fire detectors all in one at places like Lowe's. With any kind of combustible heating source it's good to have them spread throughout the house. For about $30 each +/-

Thanks. I have a few CO detectors. They have never gone off and always show 0 peak level. Something like these: https://www.costco.com/first-a...oduct.100715824.html

Are these good? I have no way to test accuracy. But maybe I should replace them - not sure how old they are, at least several years I think. But made in china so who knows if they even work.

But I'm wondering about spot testing. I see these things (excam link and one I found on Prime) but don't know how good they are, especially for the price. I want to check how much CO my range and my space heater are generating.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

And a reminder to those few who have a Pulse Oximeter to check Oxygen saturation levels. The PO measures the saturation of Hemoglobin. It does not measure what it is saturated with. As stated earlier, Carbon Monoxide has an affinity for saturating hemoglobin that is greater than Oxygen. You can be dying of Carbon Monoxide poisoning and have great Sats, and be pink. Not the dusky blue look of someone with a low O2 level. It is why Emetgency depts don’t rely on a Pulse Ox if they suspect carbon monoxide poisoning. They will will do a more accurate blood gas. (ABG). Be careful if you rely on a pulse ox for for daily sat readings.