As the boss said Occam's Razor. I have been here on earth for 63 years and I have never seen a ghost, UFO, Bigfoot or things I can't explain.
People will believe what they want to be true and will twist the truth to fit their narrative. Yeah weird things happen but the simple truth is always there.

Many years ago, I made fun of a conspiracy theory I had heard about on a popular crime series. I had no idea this theory was a "thing." I had to change my e-mail address. Thousands flooded my in-box for weeks. It's nuts how a theory can last way over a century. Since then, I don't much input on conspiracies.

One of the most simple but true arguments against most of these is the inability of people to keep secrets.
Many of these conspiracies would require a large number of regular folks keeping their mouths shut. Forever, too.
That simple requirement torpedoes them.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
One of the most simple but true arguments against most of these is the inability of people to keep secrets.
Many of these conspiracies would require a large number of regular folks keeping their mouths shut. Forever, too.
That simple requirement torpedoes them.

Yes, the current public is much different from the Manhattan Project years.

flashguy

I was involved in a conspiracy once, but this wasn't some wide sweeping national or international conspiracy that would affect the tax paying general public, or even hold much interest for them, but instead a small localized scheme within an organization.

Four people were involved. The perpetrator of the crime (technically, the same crime was committed twice at different points in time), 2 victims, and, as someone who was friends both with the perpetrator and the victims, and also the fact that I held two separate leadership positions within the organization, I was compelled to get involved.

The organization did good work, worthy work, but was at a point of conflict and contention, with two 'camps' or sides having formed. In an already inflammatory environment I read the 'tea leaves' and was concerned that the crime scandal, if investigated by law enforcement, would likely become public knowledge, possibly affecting the organization's overall excellent reputation, not to mention the privacy and dignity of the victims. I was also concerned that an investigation into the incidents would reveal practices and behaviors best left unknown, not to mention that I had concerns that one of the camps might use these incidents to discredit the other camp, thus further adding to the divisiveness.

The first time the crime occurred I spoke with the victim and, both due to possible confusion of the facts and maintaining the victim's privacy and dignity, I was willing to dismiss the incident. But, when a second victim came forward, I realized I had no choice but to act and, after speaking again with both victims and getting their approval, I decided to act but kept the actions "in house", and found a way to remove the perpetrator quietly.

For obvious reasons, I assumed the perpetrator would keep quiet about events, and myself and the victims all agreed to stay silent about the incident...however, the two victims both talked about the incident, and, as I struggled with the competing conflicting factors and what my moral and ethical obligations were, I finally turned to talking to a friend about the incident, and apparently he ran his mouth about it...so, at least 3 of the 4 individuals involved in the conspiracy all talked about it shortly after.

I don't believe that there are many conspiracies, they are not lurking under each and every sensationalized incident, but they do sometimes occur. The difficulty in keeping them quiet depends on the number of conspirators involved and their dedication and motivation to keeping quiet about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
I actually find some of the conspiracy theorists entertaining. Ever listen to "Coast to Coast" on the radio late at night when the conspiracy theorists are on? Pure comedy. I even entertained the idea of planting a conspiracy theory on line and seeing how long it took to get on the show, just for shits and grins. My son talked me out of it, but I've been really tempted of late.

I listen to Coast to Coast often, but usually only long enough to determine who the host will be and the stories being discussed. The main host, George Noory, seems to be a nice enough guy, but a terrible interviewer, and not too concerned with facts or critical thinking or presenting alternate explanations. Prone to the occult and he sees conspiracies behind almost every unexplained event. Contrails= conspiracy, GMOs =conspiracy, vaccines= conspiracy, Big Pharma= conspiracy, Monsanto= conspiracy, space aliens/ UFOs= government & military conspiracy, government/ military use of ESP/ Remote Viewing/ LSD drugs= conspiracy, etc...Surprisingly, probably because he was friends with one or two astronauts, he believes the moon landings were real. He is also friends with Alex Jones.

Some of the Coast to Coast guest fill-in hosts are also prone to conspiracy theories, afterall they are their bread and butter, but host Ian Punnit will often shy away from conspiracy theories, and encourage listeners who put forth outlandish theories to first research them and then present their research for peer review. More often than not, his guests and the stories they cover in their books are factually based and historically or scientifically interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
One of the most simple but true arguments against most of these is the inability of people to keep secrets.
Many of these conspiracies would require a large number of regular folks keeping their mouths shut. Forever, too.
That simple requirement torpedoes them.

Yes, the current public is much different from the Manhattan Project years.

flashguy

Yes, and even that didn't and wouldn't have stayed secret for decades. Obviously the dropping of the bomb brought it to everybody's immediate attention but it would have spilled out eventually as many other cold war top secret things have.

Wait a second- you guys think that America's nuclear research didn't leak out? Ever hear of Klaus Fuchs? Alger Hiss? Julius Rosenberg? And yes, that martyred son of a bitch was guilty, and his wife too, despite decades of leftist media propaganda saying that they were innocent and got railroaded because they were Jewish. The US government didn't orphan Julius and Ethel's children. They orphaned their own kids. Don't believe me? Look up "Venona Project" or "Venona decryptions"

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Wait a second- you guys think that America's nuclear research didn't leak out? Ever hear of Klaus Fuchs? Alger Hiss? Julius Rosenberg? And yes, that martyred son of a bitch was guilty, and his wife too, despite decades of leftist media propaganda saying that they were innocent and got railroaded because they were Jewish. The US government didn't orphan Julius and Ethel's children. They orphaned their own kids. Don't believe me? Look up "Venona Project" or "Venona decryptions"

Like the "Woke" purges of history we've seen in the last few weeks, I fully expect to see these "Injustices" () addressed soon. If anyone dares to question the revisions, they'll be dealt with "appropriately."

BTW: "The Terror" that accompanied the French Revolution will heretofore be referred to as "reeducation" by the proletariat.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Wait a second- you guys think that America's nuclear research didn't leak out? Ever hear of Klaus Fuchs? Alger Hiss? Julius Rosenberg? And yes, that martyred son of a bitch was guilty, and his wife too, despite decades of leftist media propaganda saying that they were innocent and got railroaded because they were Jewish. The US government didn't orphan Julius and Ethel's children. They orphaned their own kids. Don't believe me? Look up "Venona Project" or "Venona decryptions"

The general public was not aware of the Manhattan Project. It is true that there were spies who gave information to foreign entities, but there was no spread of the information throughout the public. Of course, a great reason for that was that the media at the time were patriotic enough to not publicize such information, even if they got it. That situation would not exist today--the media would fight each other to be first to get it out.

flashguy

You've answered your own question- it was wartime and there were so many "secret" things going on.

The Soviets got the bomb from us.

Not to mention the means of delivery by reverse-engineering B-29’s that landed in Siberia from Japan bombing runs, creating the TU-4.

I had a neighbor that thought the 150 MPG carburetor existed (decades ago) and the oil companies conspired to buy up any/all of the patents and shelved the invention to sell more gas. When questioned he was never able to produce a copy of the, or any, patents showing it was real. He thought he was such a smart science guy, turns out he was as dumb as a rock - beyond hope.

After seeing the last three years of a conspiracy being carried out by the highest levels of FBI/DOJ/Intel, I believe our government and those in it are capable of almost anything.

quote:

posted Jun 16, 20 14:20 Hide Post
After seeing the last three years of a conspiracy being carried out by the highest levels of FBI/DOJ/Intel, I believe our government and those in it are capable of almost anything.

Well there is that, isn’t there?
OTOH as pulicords described earlier, anyone paying attention knew the FBI could do unbelievable things to protect their own.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The maxim does not say or even suggest that zebras do not exist. The maxim refers to probabilities.

Furthermore, I disagree with "the unimportant never find out what really happened." In this day and age, the "unimportant" have ample opportunity to know the truth, via those who seek the truth and who are in a position to flesh it out. In all of human history, never has there been a time such as we live in, wherein we carry around in our pocket a device which has access to countless sources of highly detailed information.

When I was young and stupid (but I repeat myself), and was in the first days of university, I thought that this brand new thing called the internet would bring in a new era of enlightenment to the masses, and people would start reading Plato, Aristotle, Herodotus and all the other classics in mass, and thus humanity would stop burning the proverbial witches, and a new culture of knowledge would emerge from our dial-up modems.

Boy, was I wrong. As I became slightly less stupid (an ongoing process, by the by) I realized that Para’s assertion (which is valid and true: anyone *can* educate oneself freely on any given subject) only applies to people who WANT to learn and educate themselves. I marvel at the modern availability of knowledge - and it frankly humbles and overwhelms me - but sadly most people just want their smartphones and tablets and what-have-you to look at cat pictures, and to consort with people on their own level of stupidity.

Not a conspiracy theory, per se, but with the ever-increasing madness emanating forth, I tend to think all of this is part of a bigger plan. Think Revelation.

Every generation thinks that they are living in end times and can point you to specific events happening in their world, which correspond to the Book of Revelations.

Every single one.

Think about being a European Jew in 1943 Europe. Imagine what they must have been thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
I had a neighbor that thought the 150 MPG carburetor existed (decades ago) and the oil companies conspired to buy up any/all of the patents and shelved the invention to sell more gas. When questioned he was never able to produce a copy of the, or any, patents showing it was real. He thought he was such a smart science guy, turns out he was as dumb as a rock - beyond hope.

Boss302 - your post reminded me that I have a copy of "Secrets of the 200 mpg carburetor" , by Allan Wallace. One of my uncles was a tinkerer and collector of all things weird and wonderful and he had a copy of this book(?)/thick pamphlet(?) which he gave to me when he was downsizing for a move. Although I'm of the age where I've driven vehicles that had carburetors (even still have a non-running Series III Land-Rover), I never learned about them - how to rebuild, rejet, etc., so in my perusal of this document I have no idea what I'm looking at.

Para, would you mind if I start another thread this weekend and post scans of this booklet? It's about 100 pages so I'll have to do it in installments. I'm curious to hear reviews from knowledgeable members if there's any useful information, or if it's all a mismash of bunk.

I don't think that the Fair Use provision of US Copyright law allows for posting of an entire book. This is copyrighted material, yes?

Rats. Is The Fair Use Provisions in force whether the publication is copyrighted or not? I ask because there's no copyright or date of publication on the document that I can find. Does that make a difference as regards the law?

Edit to add:

Found an update in the booklet dated 1982 that says:

"1982 Update
Supercedes All Previous Updates and Revisions
Copyright 1982
Allan Wallace"

but prior to that update (about 2/3 into the booklet) I can't find any copyright notification.