Law enforcement training taught that anything is possible but almost always thing are exactly as they appear. To me a lot of conspiracy theorists take the role of public defender and try to explain that things are much more complicated and interesting than they are.

Anything can be a conspiracy based on the frame of mind of the beholder. Facts are only facts when you examine "all" the facts from credible and unbiased sources.

quote:

Originally posted by adobesig:
Law enforcement training taught that anything is possible but almost always thing are exactly as they appear.

Occam's Razor

A physician I know used to teach medical students during their rotation. He'd always tell the students "When you hear hoofbeats, don't go looking for zebras" which is an old medical maxim.

There's certainly a market for the whack jobs--just look at Jesse Ventura.

I can't speak to other's "Conspiracy Theories", but as a LEO (like many here) dealing with co-principals of crimes (aka: co-conspirators), it's neither unusual to find or to prove associations among those who have interests that are mutually beneficial. These offenders can be members of the same gang, associated gangs, family members, neighbors, friends and co-workers. All you need are two or more individuals that agree to commit an illegal act or a "legal act in an illegal manner", and one or more "overt acts" towards that end. So what makes something a "Conspiracy Theory", rather than just an investigation? IMHO: It hinges upon the sensational nature of the incident itself and whether or not there's valid reason(s) to second guess the quality of the investigation and credibility of those who conducted it.

As a cop and as defense resource, I've seen good work done and bad work done by investigators. Was the "bad" work done due to negligence, out of malice, or was it a understandable error done in good faith? It could be any one, all, or a combination of these things. To suggest that an error (like the arrest and charging of a factually innocent person) had to be done out of malice and is part of a "conspiracy" just because the police and prosecutors are involved, ignores the potential that whoever is making the claim are themselves a victim of "Confirmation Bias" (where everything that confirms a theory is accepted and everything that doesn't match the theory is rejected). We can apply these factors to relatively localized incidents (like say a robbery arrest/trial/disposition) or something "BIG", such as the election of Donald Trump, the "9/11 Attacks", or the "War on Terror" (including the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq which followed). Where's the evidence? Who's investigating the matter (or not investigating something that should be investigated), and what kind of credibility do they possess?

Years ago I watched the 2006 movie "The Departed" that was supposedly based upon the story of Boston crime boss James "Whitey" Bulger, crooked members of law enforcement that were associated with the (real) accused murderer, and the series of brutal crimes Bulger was accused of. At the time of this movie's release, Bulger had been a fugitive from justice for more than a decade, several retired and active FBI agents were charged and convicted of crimes starting with receiving bribes, and up to and including murders. The press and the local police, and residents complained for DECADES about corrupt FBI involvement. Civil suits were filed and WON, claiming that the Department of Justice and FBI had suborned perjury, tipped off Bulger to pending (state) charges, and even facilitated his flight to avoid justice. Living in the Los Angeles area, I looked at this as a "local thing" and while I didn't have much faith in the FBI as an effective or accountable law enforcement agency, I just didn't pay much attention to a "Boston, MA" issue....until I personally got involved in it two years later.

When I came up with a viable lead that I believed could have resulted in Bulger's arrest, I passed on the information and physical evidence associated with the matter, as any cop would do. Two years later (after I'd retired) the FBI arrested Bulger six blocks away from where I'd called them that night, they denied having been contacted by me. Instead, they claimed that a woman living in Iceland, had given them a tip for the new $2,000,000.00 reward. As an on-duty officer, I knew I was ineligible for any reward, but why would they lie about the tip, claiming after the arrest that they had do information prior to upping the reward by a million dollars? Why would they refuse to investigate the FBI duty agent I'd provided the tip to, who was recorded by my department's audio system at the time I called? When I informed the lead agent on the case (running a taskforce devoted only to finding Bulger, that cost the taxpayers more money than any other FBI matter than one (the hunt for Osama Bin Laden), why did he say his "superiors" told him not to follow up on such a significant integrity issue? Later, I learned that an agent who admitted to receiving at least $5,000.00 from Bulger, was transferred to the Los Angeles Office with the promotion to Assistant Agent in Charge of the unit that investigates "Police Corruption"! When I couldn't get FBI personnel interested in following up on my concerns and other evidence Bulger was either relocated by members of their organization to our city or was known to be there for more than a decade and allowed to remain free (even though he was on the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" list, I contacted the Inspector General's Office of the Department of Justice. My detailed request for an investigation was answered with an unattributed letter, indicating they had "no interest in conducting an investigation" regarding my complaint. What's that say about the accountability and transparency of these organizations?

So, with it readily apparent that our "most powerful" federal law enforcement agency had no interest in investigating whether or not their people successfully enabled a man wanted at the time for 19 counts of murder as well as other charges to remain free for more than a decade to evade arrest, am I now a "Conspiracy Theorist"?

The FBI attempted to dissuade news organizations from relating my story to Los Angeles residents, but never denied any of my claims. They just told people that aired on the news with me that it wouldn't be in their interest to keep story going. Are they now "Conspiracy Theorists"?

Is it just a weird coincidence noted by a "Conspiracy Theorist" that the Director of the FBI at the time I first contacted the agency in 2008 and when I informed the Bureau in 2010 (after Bulger's arrest in Santa Monica) was Robert Mueller, the same guy that had previously handled matters relating to Bulger in Boston for the Department of Justice before and after Bulger became a fugitive?

Maybe I'm just a "Conspiracy Theorist", but after reading how Robert Mueller continued to investigate President Trump long after the allegations about "Russian collusion" were proven to be false and that FISA warrants were obtained unlawfully to spy on the President's associates, am I crazy to think Mr. Mueller was fully informed (at a minimum) regarding my evidence regarding FBI personnel's complicity in the flight of the serial killer that they claimed responsibility to apprehend? Is it "crazy" to think Mueller would act to hide malfeasance within his department if it reflected poorly on his reputation?

Boston police, MA State Police, Customs, DEA, and other law enforcement agencies, as well as Boston citizens (many of whom are family members of murder victims of Bulger's) have been labeled by the FBI as "Conspiracy Theorists" for decades, just as those who have questioned the investigation of Donald Trump, his family, and his supporters. Maybe I'll be labeled the same now, but as I indicated in the beginning of my post, one needs to look at the information received and credibility (or lack thereof) of those who conduct investigations into conspiracies. Sometimes those actors are credible and the people claiming that "something smells rotten in Denmark" are just gullible, paranoid, or too vested in a theory to consider other possibilities. But, sometimes two or more people actually DO conspire to commit an illegal act(s), and someone(s) find evidence to support an investigation, prosecution, and conviction(s). They aren't just "Theorists", they are aware of actual wrongdoing and want to see something done about it.

I was also thinking think horses not zebras and I then I remembered this,

"The zebra got loose by swimming across the Guadalupe River. There's a second zebra that also escaped at that time and remains missing. If you spot a zebra...call NBPD at 830-221-410"

Helicopter Tracks Loose Zebra in Wimauma, Florida, Zebra on the loose in New Orleans.
Paris...

Lots of stuff goes on in the world, we will just not know about. Doesn't mean it doesn't go on, just the unimportant never find out what really happened.

Three can keep a secret as long as two of them are dead - Ben Franklin.

Some people have a lot of bodies pile up around them.

The maxim does not say or even suggest that zebras do not exist. The maxim refers to probabilities.

Furthermore, I disagree with "the unimportant never find out what really happened." In this day and age, the "unimportant" have ample opportunity to know the truth, via those who seek the truth and who are in a position to flesh it out. In all of human history, never has there been a time such as we live in, wherein we carry around in our pocket a device which has access to countless sources of highly detailed information.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Large groups keeping secrets? No.

And even less likely are large gov't groups keeping secrets. Not going to happen. Ever. Somebody always has to run to the press "anonymously" to make themselves feel more important.

Some conspiracy theories I chuckle at, others make me mad. 9/11 conspiracy theorists really make me mad and I seriously question a person's mental faculties that spout that nonsense.

I hate that some things are labeled as conspiracy theories - it seems the media labels anything they don't want investigated as a conspiracy theory to discredit it.

I read an essay recently that I thought made some pretty good points:

The Conspiracy Myth

The author is liberal and I don't agree with everything in the essay, but in the spirit of JAllen, I link to it so you can read and draw your own conclusions.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
9/11 conspiracy theorists really make me mad and I seriously question a person's metal faculties that spout that nonsense.

“I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel." - Rosie O'Donnell

That remark should be enshrined in the Intergalactic Museum of Stupid, 'cause in order to find that level of dumbassery, we're gonna have to get on a rocketship and leave the galaxy.

Not a conspiracy theorist but my fiancé’s 27 year old daughter is very much into astrology. Anytime a current event comes up or some relationship happens with her she will talk my ear off on how it’s all in the stars. Drives me nuts. I indulge her to keep the peace as she lives with us. But what I really want to say is, “If you stop believing the stars are responsible for everything, and if you put even a fraction of effort into a real job that you put into studying astrology and making jewelry from shiny rocks, well maybe you could get a place if your own.”

But maybe I’m just being bitchy because Mercury is in retrograde.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

...Don't remember Parallax View and Winter Kills, need to add that to my list...

Oh, man, you are missing out. Winter Kills is damn entertaining (most movies with John Huston are) and The Parallax View is downright frightening. Credit that to director Alan Pakula.

I loved The Parallax View. Also really liked The Conversation from that era. Need to check out Winter Kills. Never seen that one. What a cast!

I'm not sure you could consider it a conspiracy theory, but I know a guy who is convinced that the pyramids were built with advanced technology, possibly alien, that was somehow lost.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
It is, indeed, tempting to postulate that some unknown advanced technology was available to them, possibly from ETs.

You're going to get this thread locked. Just stow that whacky shit. Don't tell me about your "open mind". Just can that stuff.

^^^

Many of us grew up with machines and such that were made within the last hundred years that may people today cannot explain how they were built, how to fix them or cannot build similar items, yet these same people think they are smarter than the folks that did create, build and operate those "simpler" machines because they can text, or look up cat pics on a computer.

Educated idiots, the lot of them.

Likely the same way of the pyramids and other structures and things long past. Done by people that developed the processes and used their noggins to figure out how to make it all happen, then they died, and the knowledge of the details with them.

Aliums my hairy monkey butt...

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
It is, indeed, tempting to postulate that some unknown advanced technology was available to them, possibly from ETs.

You're going to get this thread locked. Just stow that whacky shit. Don't tell me about your "open mind". Just can that stuff.

Sorry. Post deleted.

My favorite is "Birds aren't real". What is/started as a joke conspiracy theory does have some followers who believe it to be true. Here's a good quote I found on it.

quote:

“Birds Aren't Real is taking advantage of the meme-ification of previous conspiracy theories,” Metzler says. “People really want to believe in conspiracies—but more than that, people want to make fun of people who believe in conspiracies even more. Starting a conspiracy theory and selling Birds Aren’t Real merchandise allows them to sell to both sides

Just shows how people will go along with anything.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:

Just shows how people will go along with anything.

I have a chemtrail patches on a couple of flight gear bags, and one day when waiting for a flight, a passenger noticed one of the patches.

"You mean it's real?"

"Sure."

"You admit it? You're not trying to hide it?"

"Why would I?"

"Oh, my God!"

I've seen conspiracist sites out there calling for the killing of any pilot, to prevent chemtrails. There are some real idiots out there, not the least of which is anyone that would believe it.

At least I can say it legitimately, having dispensed a lot of stuff from aircraft, from agent orange to people to retardant to economic poisons and a few other things, a few of which were flammable or on fire. Never any conspiracy behind it, though.

One of the web sites featured a picture that I knew well. I wrote the author about it. He insisted it was a secret picture taken of a clandestine operator working the classified machinery in an aircraft, creating chemtrails. The reason I knew the picture was because it was on board a C-130 I used to fly, and it was firefighting equipment. I knew the person in the picture. No convincing the person who held the website, though. Nobody wants their wild theories puctured with truth.

A few years ago a fruitcake in southern Nevada made headlines when he had a standoff with the government. He and his people blockaded an interstate, and they were making a practice of shooting at BLM workers, scientists, and others out in the country, on public lands. We had to be briefed and sign for the briefing about the threat, and a no-fly area was set up around his "claims" on public land...because although we were there to fight fire, they were convinced it was the government spying on them. The same has been true in several other areas.

Some see black helicopters and spies everywhere. Can't help it.

That's fine. No need to go put out their fires.

I have a fairly large set of solid well-grounded beliefs that I rely on with confidence. They are my go to assumptions that I rely on. I am confident in relying on them because I don’t identify myself with my beliefs. That means if, at any time, I am presented with a better truth than what I already have, I am prepared and willing to do the swap. I can do this because I don’t see myself as having been wrong; it’s that what I believe is wrong and, now, I’m acquiring a belief that is actually true.

My willingness to do so means I am open to the possibility that an idea out there that has not been proven to be false may actually be true ultimately. Yes, solipsism may actually be true and you’re all a product of my imagination but, in the mean time, I’ll operate on the assumption that each of you are your own separate beings. Life on earth may actually have its genesis from a project by beings from another planet. Green reptiles masquerading as humans may actually be controlling the world. The (I forget the name so if someone can remind me I’d appreciate it) triad, or New World Order or (I think the name starts with M) maybe pulling the strings of world events. I think they’re separate from the group of rich and powerful people that meet in some grove once a year. ETA: I googled and remembered: the trilateral commission.

I take things at face value but allow that any one of these “conspiracy theories” may actually be true in the end. Of course, one has to evaluate these theories as you come across them. It’s easy if they can be proven wrong. But if not, I’m comfortable tagging them as indeterminate at the moment.

I actually find some of the conspiracy theorists entertaining. Ever listen to "Coast to Coast" on the radio late at night when the conspiracy theorists are on? Pure comedy. I even entertained the idea of planting a conspiracy theory on line and seeing how long it took to get on the show, just for shits and grins. My son talked me out of it, but I've been really tempted of late.