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| Member |
I have been using a Garmin Forerunner 235 running watch for several years. It has been linked to both GPS and GLONASS (Russian) navigation satellites. Today it shows GPS only. Just wondering if it is a coincidence or it's somehow related to the Russian invasion. | ||
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blame canada |
Checking my inreach. I did not know that GLONASS was russian. A quick search showed a site that Garmin talks about it. Also, previous down times where the Russians have screwed up their network before (2014 news article). If I was Russia, I'd certainly take it offline for the West. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.rikrlandvs.com | |||
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| blame canada |
I found this article that seems semi-relevant: https://www.gpsworld.com/finni...near-russian-border/ It discusses probably interference with GPS signals by the Russians near the borders. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.rikrlandvs.com | |||
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| Member |
Russian satellite guidance is notoriously unreliable. Both the US military and the Russians routinely degrade satellite signals, or jam them. The US routinely jams or degrades the GPS signal in the US, though you may not be aware. It's a very regular occurrence, just not necessarily where you are. Globally, I routinely see loss of GPS signal guidance in certain locations, including a large swatch of a portion of Russia, and certain areas east and south of Russia, and in the Pacific. Satellite guidance signals are weak, and easily disrupted. Yes, Glonass is russian. GPS is a US system. Both are military, and both retain the right and capability to selectively disrupt, degrade, interfere, or turn off. The Russians have made heavy use of the GPS system, but launched their own to preclude reliance on a US nav system that is US controlled. | |||
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| Dances With Tornados |
FWIW the chinese, the Indians, Japan and the European Union have their own version, in some sort of scale, of GPS. . | |||
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| Member |
The original Glosnass system is inoperative and defunct. Updated versions are in orbit, and operational. Glosnass uses a different datum than the GPS constellation: GPS uses the WGS84 datum, with a true north established in 1984. Glosnass uses the datum from 1995; they are not coincident, and represent a position shift which increases geographically as distance increases from the poles. The EU constellation, Galileo, is expected to be fully operational in 2022, and predicts higher accuracy than GPS. Bel-Dou-2, or BDS, is the Chinese system. It is also called COMPASS. It is not a global system, but covers Asia and the Pacific, as well as most of the Indian Ocean. The Chinese were also heavily involved in Galileo. Japan does not have a global system, but has launched four satellites that work in conjunction with the US GPS constellation: these are intended exclusively to enhance GPS navigation within Japan, and to provide better signal coverage in mountainous areas (all of Japan is mountainous). The Japanese supplementary constellation, sometimes called the "Japanese GPS," is the QZSS, or Quasi-Zenith Satellite System. Japan intends to put several more satellites in the constellation by the end of next year. India does not have a global system. India uses a constellation of 7 satellites, referred to as the IRNSS (Indian Regional Navigational Satellite System), also called Nav1C. These provide satellite nav service in India. They intend a constellation of 24 satellites, which will be called the Global Indian Navigation System, or GINS. The immediate plan is five more to the current constellation. | |||
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Member |
One day all those sats are going to start crashing into each other.... I remember back when the GPS system had an error factor for us civilians of about 90 meters to keep our enemies from potentially using it on a ballistic missile. at least that's what I heard... then some one figured out they did not need a missile to blow up a government building... just a Ryder truck and a thousand pounds or more of fertilize and diesel fuel topped off with a couple hundred pounds of C4...... I get notices from the FAA every so often about areas that the GPS system will be shut down in.... and I'm just a Drone pilot. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Banned |
For those of us using Maps or such on a cell phone, be advised, it doesn't use GPS so much as the three cell towers it can link up. Each knows exactly where it is, and triangulation occurs much more quickly. I can use my old Bushnell Backtrack and then start up the cell phone, guess which gets me an answer quicker? Instead of relying on the relatively weak GPS signal from hundreds of miles out, the phone uses the close quicker ones and responds much faster. As long as the net is up and your maps is actually correct. I have that issue right in my front yard - we are on a dead end access lane and the most commonly used maps program continually sends traffic to my front yard because they continually delete the correction that shows there is no connecting road. Nope, they direct you to my west turning driveway to make an east turn and voila, backing and cussing commences. There is no intersection or an east turn. Nada. It's a free app, you get what you pay for. Actually using a specific device that can acquire a GPS signal is getting rarer because we are saturated with cell towers. It's a superior system in the regard that loss of one tower doesn't take down the system much - we lost one during an EF5 ten years back, communications in the impact zone was much more important. But it does go to becoming dependent on a system that is not perfect and does have vulnerabilities. I take my Silva Ranger and a map when I hunt. It's fun to check against my internal resolution and the cell phone, good practice. On vacations, a Rand McNally, which will lie to you, too, but better than nothing. I double dog dare you to drive cross country with no electronic device on. But, it is a help when you need it. And no, we avoid interstates traveling. It's one state highway to another and small town America all the way. | |||
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Member |
This is all pretty much totally wrong. You apparently didn't read my reply in the thread a couple of weeks ago where you posted something similar. Virtually every cell phone on the market has an actual GPS chip in it and uses actual GPS when an accurate location is required. This is TRIVIAL to demonstrate by downloading one of the many "GPS Status" apps that are available that will show you the current GPS signal your phone is receiving from the satellites. You can also use offline navigation apps with GPS location in the middle of nowhere where there is no cell service. The reason your phone gets a location quicker is because a traditional GPS device has to listen for a large amount of data about the exact locations of the satellites that is transmitted VERY slowly by the satellites. Cell phones can download this satellite position data in a moment over their network connections, then just use the GPS timing signals to perform the actual triangulation. Cheap-as-shit GPS logging devices can sometimes take 10 minutes to get an initial position, because it takes them a long time to receive all the satellite position data. Once they have that data, they typically compute a new position based on new GPS time signal every second. Not every 10 minutes, EVERY SECOND. The signal strength and orbital altitude of the satellites has nothing to do with it. The GPS satellites don't orbit at "hundreds of miles out," they orbit at about 12,000 miles. You know how long the GPS signal takes to get to your phone from 12,000 miles away? Less than a tenth of a second. | |||
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| Member |
It has nothing to do with "weak signals" that are "hundreds of miles away. It has everything to do with the device. iPads and iPhones are not precision navigational instruments, but they are able to receive a GPS signal. What they can do with it depends on what program (application) is in use, as well as location, shielding, etc. There are a number of navigation programs that do use GPS, with cell service shut off, on both the iPhone and iPad. In fact, I have found myself in the middle of the pacific ocean with loss of all navigation equipment, except an iPad (a less than desirable state), with no landmarks of any kind on the surface, and daylight with no celestial fixes or objects other than the sun. Increased number of towers doesn't mean that devices can't use GPS, but it really depends what you're using the device for, what applications you're using, what you have enabled, and where you are. I've used navigation information from GPS on both an iPad and iPhone all over the globe, everywhere but antarctica, with or without cell reception. I'm not sure how a cell tower is superior to GPS, or the notion that "loss of one tower doesn't take the system down much." GPS doesn't just uee a couple of satellites, and typically has five or more providing very accurate information. Anyone that has used their phone map program to find an address or location, then driven back and forth several times, missing the location, when the map doesn't catch up, might appreciate the limitation, and also appreciate why navigation that matters doesn't depend on cell signals. It's handy if you want to take a peek at what the traffic application says about back-ups on the freeway, or getting a general idea of the location of Quickymart. Not something I'd care to bet my life on with any degree of precision, however. GPS is another matter. I can travel several thousand miles on GPS and pass directly over or under someone else using the same thing, who has come a similar distance. That's pretty darn accurate, and it does it in the middle of an ocean at speeds in excess of five hundred miles an hour. There are devices available that are "GPS boosters" that are somewhat like repeaters, that allow the use of various handheld devices (iPads, iPhones, etc), when they don't have good line of sight reception or location, and still enable very accurate position plotting with GPS. Cell towers are not a "superior" form of navigation or of generating a position. Devices which can connect to them can provide useful information within certain perameters. There are plenty of devices that receive GPS which can do that with, or without cellular service. The iPad that I'm carrying at the moment does just fine, and it doesn't have cellular service. If your Bushnell backtrack isn't giving you timely information, consider the age and the limitations of the device. The backtrack will do something you cell phone won't, however; it will still provide location information when you can't get a cell signal. | |||
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| Member |
Your spend your whole post saying cell phones have GPS and don't need a cell signal, and then at the end say they need a cell signal to provide location information. | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
And when that happens, it may create a chain reaction and cause space to become inaccessible for a very long time: Experts worry that debris orbiting Earth could lead to a "Kessler syndrome" domino effect that cuts off human access to space for hundreds or even thousands of years. | |||
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A Grateful American |
 "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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| Member |
You actually quoted me and still got it precisely ass backward. Congratulations. Reading comprehension: zero. Follow very carefully: the poster to whom I responded said that GPS in handheld devices is a rarity. Wrong. It's very commmon. The poster to whom I responded stated that cell phone coverage is more accurate than GPS coverage. Wrong. The poster to whom I responded said that cell phones are more accurate because they are closer, and GPS is less accurate because it is farther. Wrong. The person to whom I responded used his Bushnell Backtrack as an example of a GPS device that is less accurate, takes longer to fix a position, and proves that cellphone maps are, as he put it, "superior." Setting aside the simple fact that he's comparing apples and oranges, you have quoted me stating that a cell signal is NOT required, and gone on to state that I said that it is. READ. The backtrack will do something the cell phone cannot: the Backtrack will still provide information when there is NO cell coverage. It doesn't use cell coverage. I did not say it requireis cell coverage. I said it works WITHOUT cell coverage. Now that you're finished completely missing the point, and dedicating your post to a piss poor attempt to shoot mine down, do you actually have something to offer in the thread, or is your only contribution going to be taking a half-baked potshot at me without actually reading what you quoted? | |||
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| Member |
Jesus, who pissed in your cheerios? I was pointing out a part of your post where I assumed misspoke (typed?). Read the last bit of what you posted again: “ The backtrack will do something you cell phone won't, however; it will still provide location information when you can't get a cell signal.” And now again: “The backtrack will do something you cell phone won't, however;” The phone can’t do something the backtrack can… “it will still provide location information when you can't get a cell signal.” … provide location information without a cell signal. You OBVIOUSLY know that isn’t correct, but it IS what you wrote. God damn. As far as something to offer in the thread, look at the post before yours. I will refrain from quoting your case of ass in case you want to edit it. | |||
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Fire begets Fire |
"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
No he did not. Part of your post is poorly written and you have failed to comprehend that twice now. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
So will my iPhone, as did my Moto G before that. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Dances With Tornados |
I'm no expert, cut me some polite slack for that. I have often wondered what would happen if, for example, a war, a big one, broke out and goverments/agencies decided to turn off the GPS. What happens to airliners flying long long routes, especially over the oceans, and just like that, boom zip! the signal is lost. How the F are they going to make it to a safe landing, with limited fuel? Let's say, for example, LAX (Los Angeles) to Australia or New Zealand. That's a lot of miles, and no land to put'er down on. Clocks ticking, engines running, fuel is burning. I know that INS (Internal Navigation System) was greatly used and relied on, and I have no idea if todays modern aircraft use it. I used to own a boat that had LORAN, I have no idea if that is commonly used now. I recall the old days when planes had a Navigator in the cockpit but that's pretty much extinct now, as far as I know. Big planes, especially big Military planes, might have a glass dome on top where the Navigator would take a "fix" with a Sextant and thus compute location and run a line from A to B to see if still on track. Time and Distance and Heading, with a really accurate clock, map chart whatever, and a lot of Math were used. But wind speed and direction pushes a plane off of the desired heading. Got to account for that. I don't know, but I think these things are just not commonly used anymore, everybody and everything uses and relies on GPS. Turn that off and it's screw time. If you're flying ETOPS (staying close to land along the route, you've probably got a time and distance running and should allow you to find a landing spot without too much difficulty. However, flying 12 hours over nothing but ocean, no plane at all to land, you've only got so much fuel, jeez that makes me nervous about flying USA to Australia or New Zealand, or even if I wanted to fly to St Helena Island, a small island in the middle of nowhere in the South Atlantic Ocean, if your navigation screws up, you might be going for a swim. Technology is great, until it doesn't work. I don't know, I'm just curiously wondering, so don't flame me. I just like to learn new things, I'm a very curious person. . | |||
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