quote:

Say hello to drones that are “just doing my job”.

Sounds similar to "I was just following orders."

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
This desperation to fill police slots will bite these cities (mine included) in the ass within the next 5-10 years. This will come in the form of corruption and illegal acts due to hiring less intelligent, less able people with existing criminal histories and drug use. Standards have certainly been lowered, and continue to be.

The wise politicians in North Carolina have passed a new law that went into effect in December. If you are arrested and the prosecutor decides to dismiss your charge(s), misdemeanor or felony, ALL records of your arrest are automatically expunged.

There is now, going forward, no way for officers to know if a dirtbag has been arrested for gun/drug/domestic/assaults/ADW/shootings, etc. It is so common for these charges to be dismissed in my county that it’s unbelievable.

The pendulum hasn’t started swinging back, yet.

I see the point you're trying to make, but I have first hand insight to this. I've been in the game of training new recruits for local depts and now with a federal agency. I've been doing it for 28 years now. The cops of years past actually wanted to be cops. It was a "calling". We weren't the typically highly educated college grads that you see today, but we had more brains than any of those ones I see now. Generally speaking, the new generation of cops dont wanna be cops. They go into police work not because it's a calling, but because it's a job. Most of these kids have never been in a street fight. Dont know what getting your hands dirty is. Hell, I've seen a few who didnt have driver's licenses before applying. The new breed of cops mirrors our younger generation....soft and weak. Criminals know this also. There was a saying when I was young cop. On the street it's better to feared than respected. Now days they dont fear or respect you. I'm just glad I've one foot out the door.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

This, unfortunately. A national police force is exactly what our government wants. If it happens, say goodbye to sheriffs that buck the narrative and actually protect our rights as per the constitution. Say hello to drones that are “just doing my job”.

I can't think of anything more inimical to American democracy and freedom than a national police force. I agree that there are Marxists and Communists who would love to see this happen.

But it will never happen. A national police force flies in the face of States' Rights, won't pass Constitutional muster, and is the road to fascism. Individual officers, and many other patriots in and out of government service have sworn to uphold the Constitution. Any attempt to nationalize the police will meet grass roots opposition.

Policing is a local, community based endeavor that must be responsive to the local community needs. Even larger departments have decentralized in an effort to respond to community needs. As long as conservatism is alive in America, this idea would go nowhere.

My grandson is a sergeant on the Philadelphia PD and certainly has no love-none at all-for the current prosecutor.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
We don't have an age limit, as long as you can do the physical test and pass the medical exam. We have had candidates go through in their late 40's.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
We’ll hire from 21 and up. No limit. Oldest I remember was like 52. Usually it’s mostly 22-25 with a couple in their 30s and maybe one every couple of classes over 40.

Yep. No upper limit around here, as long as you can hack it.

At the academy where I teach, we usually have 1 or 2 in their 30s/40s in each class. Often retired military, but not always.

We've had a few go through in their 50s/60s over the years.


Honestly, while there's certainly a place for the early-20-somethings purely from a physical standpoint, I'd rather have a 30/40-something in decent shape with some life experience under their belt than a 21 year old in peak physical condition.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
This desperation to fill police slots will bite these cities (mine included) in the ass within the next 5-10 years. This will come in the form of corruption and illegal acts due to hiring less intelligent, less able people with existing criminal histories and drug use. Standards have certainly been lowered, and continue to be.

Wasn't this the case in Minneapolis about 5-yrs ago, where the city was pushing the PD hard to get more East African LEO's on the force? Culminating in Justine Damond being killed in her own home by responding Off. Mohamed Noor, to which the onion was peeled-back and revealed he had questionable psych evals, multiple time applicant, shortened training pipeline, poor evals by FTO, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
In a few years from now, that person that got on the job with a few domestic arrests, let's not be all shocked and aghast when they get arrested for beating the shit out of their girlfriend/wife... Oh, only a few theft arrests? No convictions? SURE, COME ON IN!!! But in 6 years when that officer is stealing from the drug dealers, or making "$50 traffic stops"- don't ask why...

Harvey PD?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
In a few years from now, that person that got on the job...

Harvey PD?

In Harvey's case, it's hard to recruit quality or semi-quality when you're paying $15-17 an hour.
It's a 50/50 shot- quit or fired/indicted

This is from last Thursday and Friday:

At least 24 people were shot, five fatally, during a brutal 24-hour stretch in Philadelphia on Thursday and Friday, according to police, a grim continuation of the city’s sustained surge in gunfire.

The shootings happened in neighborhoods across the city and at all hours of the day, police said, with bullets striking people who ranged in age from 18 to 65.

In a single hour Thursday — between 2 and 3 p.m. — police said at least nine people were shot in five separate incidents. Two of them died, police said, including a 34-year-old man who shot a 25-year-old woman in the leg in Mayfair, then fatally shot himself.

Several more shootings were reported Friday night.

I sometimes get discouraged as I think of the direction our country is headed. I hope there is a course correction come this November. If the Republicans take the House and Senate, that would be great. However I am a realist. A Republican House and Senate can't fix stupid when you have idiots like Philadelphia DA Larry Krasner. It would be easy to say that the citizens of Philadelphia voted for that idiot Krasner. So they deserve what they get. But not everyone voted for him. These big cities are all going to elect only Democrats. There USED TO BE some Democrats who would take crime seriously and didn't look at the police as the enemy. Ed Rendell used to be the Mayor of Philadelphia. I am sure I would disagree with him on a lot of things. But he was not a lunatic. He supported the police. He was excellent as Mayor during the time when Officer Danny Faulkner was murdered by Wesley Cook AKA Mumia Abu Jamal. Rendell has gone up against left wing activists repeatedly saying Jamal deserved the death penalty and was clearly obviously guilty. I don't think there are many (if any) sensible Democrats left.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
In Harvey's case, it's hard to recruit quality or semi-quality when you're paying $15-17 an hour.
It's a 50/50 shot- quit or fired/indicted

I ever tell you when I was working exterior security in Harvey at this nightclub called The Lick (147th and Halsted) how Harvey PD came up to us after a fight and said, "don't let fights break out. Shoot a motherfucker. Kill them! You won't get charged! I'll do the paperwork!"?

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

This, unfortunately. A national police force is exactly what our government wants. If it happens, say goodbye to sheriffs that buck the narrative and actually protect our rights as per the constitution. Say hello to drones that are “just doing my job”.

I can't think of anything more inimical to American democracy and freedom than a national police force. I agree that there are Marxists and Communists who would love to see this happen.

But it will never happen. A national police force flies in the face of States' Rights, won't pass Constitutional muster, and is the road to fascism. Individual officers, and many other patriots in and out of government service have sworn to uphold the Constitution. Any attempt to nationalize the police will meet grass roots opposition.

Policing is a local, community based endeavor that must be responsive to the local community needs. Even larger departments have decentralized in an effort to respond to community needs. As long as conservatism is alive in America, this idea would go nowhere.

Constitutionally, I agree with you. Factually, I also agree, UP TO A POINT. We are starting to see the desire to repeal Posse Comatitus. It would make a Great deal of sense to have the Federal Government involve the Military in Law Enforcement to the minds of our Liberal Speaker of the House. Would this turn around 120 years of legislative history? Would this eliminate the 10th amendment? Sure. But who cares?

I've been doing it for 28 years now. The cops of years past actually wanted to be cops. It was a "calling". We weren't the typically highly educated college grads that you see today, but we had more brains than any of those ones I see now. Generally speaking, the new generation of cops dont wanna be cops.

How many of the recruits come from police families now as opposed to when you first started?

I have been retired for quite a while now but even when I was on the job, the number of dedicated recruits was declining in favor of "job seekers".
Example:
When I first started, my ass went straight out onto the 4-12 shift, where you dealt with everything from traffic to retail theft to armed robberies and family fights. And you stayed there until you had enough seniority to try for a better shift. And it was 5 to 7 years before you got to drive a new patrol car. In the last few years I worked, rookies wanted their choice of shifts and a new car.
And a high number of "job seekers" never made the probationary term or outright quit when they got a taste of the street.
Quality recruiting has been difficult for many years now.

Interesting about the agencies that pay $15-$17 per hour, McDonalds here in town is offering $17 per hour now. Not managers, cooks.

Why would you want to be the police for $15-17 per hour?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Interesting about the agencies that pay $15-$17 per hour, McDonalds here in town is offering $17 per hour now. Not managers, cooks.

Why would you want to be the police for $15-17 per hour?

Interesting question. Several of the counties and small cities 'round here have a very active reserve officer program where a reservist will volunteer 200+ hours per year for free. Sadly one was killed by a suspect a few years back. Wasn't even on a paid position, and died on duty.

But I see your point about $17 per hour as a full time paid position as a bit light. Seems the smaller communities often don't pay much. To make matters worse, many or the rural and small communities don't offer much training either. Sometimes they can hitch onto the county training, but if that's not offered, then that's that.

As a side note, many of the smaller incorporated cities around here are tossing in the towel on their smallish departments and letting the county do the policing now. I wonder if other areas are seeing the same thing.

Reserves generally fall into two categories in my experience:

Younger guys that want to try it out, get some experience, etc., and usually older guys with established careers doing something else that have an itch to scratch, want to give back, etc.

Within those groups there is plenty of variety in motivation and interest, but it's what I've seen with reserve units pretty universally. Most of the work is unpaid, they often have to buy equipment, etc. I was a reserve for two years (in the first group) and really enjoyed it. It set me on the path to full-time policing and instilled in me a desire to both get and provide quality training.

The "problems" with reserve units are that they can take time to stand up, you often see lower hiring and training standards (between no pay and being very part time), and some states by statute and some departments by policy limit what a reserve officer can do. What you end up with on the average with a reserve unit are guys that are less trained, less experienced, and less qualified. I'm saying that will all due respect and not at all as an insult - it's just the facts. There are exceptions, particularly in large agencies (like LAPD) where the reserve unit is trained to the same curriculum, but for every LAPD, there are dozens of departments that are providing 80 hours of "training".

I say all of that to say that reserve units don't solve the problems that chongosuerte predicts. They do provide supplemental staffing and there are lots of good dudes doing that work, but if you are a plumber, a factory worker, a lawyer, a banker, etc., and you have the choice of putting on a gun belt this weekend and risking your livelihood (I'm not even talking about your life) in some of these cities, or staying home with your family, are you going?

Reserves in my area are not commissioned officers or have authority that includes actual law enforcement. They are uniformed and in old marked units with yellow light bars and no defensive gear. From the looks of things they appear almost all retirees or physically unable to meet standards. Their main function appears to be traffic control at incidents or manning barricades.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Interesting about the agencies that pay $15-$17 per hour, McDonalds here in town is offering $17 per hour now. Not managers, cooks.

Why would you want to be the police for $15-17 per hour?

Benefits, retirement and job security.

quote:

This desperation to fill police slots will bite these cities (mine included) in the ass within the next 5-10 years. This will come in the form of corruption and illegal acts due to hiring less intelligent, less able people with existing criminal histories and drug use. Standards have certainly been lowered, and continue to be...

Correct....but, this has been going on for well over twenty five years on the federal level, under the guise of Affirmative Action. FBI, CIA and other departments. They hired those with arrest records.

quote:

Originally posted by photohause:
Correct....but, this has been going on for well over twenty five years on the federal level, under the guise of Affirmative Action. FBI, CIA and other departments. They hired those with arrest records.

Perhaps even longer. I first saw it in 1976 when it was used against me to get an unqualified woman into a public sector job. A year later she was perp walked out for embezzlement.