SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Tesla collapse? Bankruptcy for Elon Musk is entirely possible, economist warns
Main Page The Lounge Tesla collapse? Bankruptcy for Elon Musk is entirely possible, economist warnsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Mired in the Fog of Lucidity |
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| come and take it |
I think they will survive, but I have sold my stock for a nice profit. The hype is ending and the stock price is getting closer to running on fundamentals and I don't want to be along for that ride. I have a few SIGs. | |||
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| Member |
makes sense to me. ----------------- Silenced on the net, Just like Trump | |||
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delicately calloused |
7500.00 per car subsidies and they still lose money..... Now the subsidy is going away. Doesn't look sound to me. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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| No double standards |
But Elon is going to build a hyperloop train that goes NY to LA in 3 hours, and a hyper spaceship that will do NY to Singapore in 39 minutes. And he will have us living on Mars, as we will ruin planet Earth. Surely he can make Tesla successful.  We study Tesla in my accounting classes. Their cashflow from operations is negative. On a cash basis they spend more money to build and sell a Tesla than the money they get from that sale - the checking account balance goes down with every car they sell. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
And when that happens I predict he will fully become the real world Bond villain I believe he is.  "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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| Mired in the Fog of Lucidity |
SolarCity hasn't fared much better. Subsidies have been trending downward and SolarCity exists because of subsidies. Tesla absorbed SolarCity last year to ward off it's potential bankruptcy. | |||
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Member |
I’m suspicious that the business model always involved a Democratic administration with all that entails. The electric car industry being to important to the Dems to fail, and subsequent subsidies to keep Tesla afloat. Musk has always been adept at chasing subsidies. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
"Elon Musk" sounds like a men's cologne. Elon Musk por homme | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
I remember when that seemed to be true of Amazon. For several years consecutively, it’s sales went up very impressively, and so did the amount of net loss. The more it sold, the more it lost. That isn't a sustainable business model indefintely, of course. Eventually those inefficiencies were corrected, apparently. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| No double standards |
It seems in the last 8 or so years Amazon's revenues have quadrupled, their avgerage net profit ratio has been about .8%, meaning they make $.80 in profit for every $100 in revenue (+ or - a bit). But their cashflow from operations has been positive during that time. Tesla is a different story. The lose money on both an accrual and a cash basis. Tesla's forcast is a hockey stick -- they project the next little while they will continue downward, but at some magic point in the future they will turn the corner and skyrocket (maybe that is why Musk is into SpaceX )"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| stupid beyond all belief  |
Yes but amazon had few internet competitors. Telsa is competing with companies who already have successful exltra cars that YUGE. Toyoyta, Honda, Chevy, well under the 45k mark per car. Amazon had to convince people to buy their crap online for cheap when no one else was offering it. People are inherently lazy so this worked. Tesla has to convince people to buy their crap for more than what the other guy sells it which is widely available. Seems like a losing a proposition. What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Everyone knows that to be successful in the auto business, losing money on every sale as they do, you have to make it up in volume. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Striker in waiting |
I thought it was the finance box, the add-ons, and most importantly - the service? -Rob I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888 A=A | |||
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| Low Profile Member |
tesla can sell cars for less than they cost to produce as long as they can raise capital. when the music stops it will all collapse. the fundementals are clear, the only thing prolonging the music is greed and the willingness to speculate, at risk, that the music will continue a little longer. | |||
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Sound and Fury |
Elon Musk went from super libertarian to super rent seeker, and he made a lot of money doing it. I doubt he's anywhere near bankrupt. "I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989 Si vis pacem para bellum There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Feeding Trolls Since 1995 | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
I don't think we are talking about personal bankruptcy for Elon Musk, are we? But bankruptcy for Tesla seems possible to me, given my (limited) understanding of the business. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| delicately calloused |
We all know whose checking account it is........ Speaking of, where did all of the Solindra money go? You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
Musk reminds me of Durant in Hell on Wheels or Gary Kildall IRL. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
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| No double standards |
Ahh, Solyndra, used to drive by there twice a week. They took ~$535 Million in gov't loans, filed for bankruptcy, the investors got much of their money back, the US taxpayer took the hit. Thank you Obama (I wonder if Obama got some sort of kickback?) The Solyndra auditors, PricewaterhouseCoopers, issued a "going concern" opinion, which, in short, says the company is going down the toilet. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Tesla collapse? Bankruptcy for Elon Musk is entirely possible, economist warns
Main Page The Lounge Tesla collapse? Bankruptcy for Elon Musk is entirely possible, economist warns© SIGforum 2024