IIRC, the Bagram plane stalled from a rearward cargo shift & came down more nose level.
The couple shots of this one it looked like a severe dive.

I suppose a load shift to the front could have that effect, not sure what cargo a flight of 5 would have on board that could cause such a severe balance shift.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
IIRC, the Bagram plane stalled from a rearward cargo shift & came down more nose level.
The couple shots of this one it looked like a severe dive.

I suppose a load shift to the front could have that effect, not sure what cargo a flight of 5 would have on board that could cause such a severe balance shift.

This is a much smaller plane so that's what made me look for details of the modifications for carrying this type of load.
The load shift issue is actually to the back, causing nose up and an inability to get the nose down and causing a stall. If there was a rolling Gurney or stretcher with equipment attached, that might be enough.

The Bagram crash clearly had a huge weight shift but the initial damage was the damage to the flight controls.
Not to hijack this thread over that story so here is an excellent analysis of what actually happened in that one, and I'll end that (Bagram) discussion here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvZEr3IkLJI

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I suppose a load shift to the front could have that effect,

There was no load shift. That was a full power lawn dart. Either suicide or some catastrophic mechanical failure to cause it.

This I did not expect. That is a significant hole in the ground, through concrete.

Video:
https://www.fox29.com/news/phi...tos-videos-aftermath

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I suppose a load shift to the front could have that effect,

There was no load shift. That was a full power lawn dart. Either suicide or some catastrophic mechanical failure to cause it.

Never been in a small jet [PIC of multiple prop planes, is the extent of my left seat experience] could you even engage a dive that steep, that quickly?
Even if you firewall the yoke, would it transition into that steep of a dive so quickly?

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I suppose a load shift to the front could have that effect,

There was no load shift. That was a full power lawn dart. Either suicide or some catastrophic mechanical failure to cause it.

Never been in a small jet [PIC of multiple prop planes, is the extent of my left seat experience] could you even engage a dive that steep, that quickly?
Even if you firewall the yoke, would it transition into that steep of a dive so quickly?

I have flown the lear 35, lear 31 and lear 45. There is no way to get going that fast downhill unless you are upside down. The gurney on a medivac converted plane is usually the first 7ft or so of the right side of the fuselage. That only leaves less than 6 feet to the back of the cabin interior,and there are seats for the medics and such behind the gurney making a shift almost impossible, so I wouldn't put any credence to a cargo shift at this time. It's incredibly cramped inside a small business jet converted to medivac.
Here are the cabin dimensions of the lear 55

Cabin Height: 5 ft 7 In
Cabin Width: 5 ft 9 In
Cabin Length: 13 ft 7 In
Cabin Volume: 407 cu ft
Door Height: 5 ft 3 In
Door Width: 2 ft
Internal Baggage: 40 cu ft
It's a tight fit once everyone gets in.

I watched the ATC tape video above, the medevac gets the call to switch to philly approach and acknowledges it, then never makes a call again.I suspect something happened after that call that distracted the crew, who then either 1) got slow and stalled, resulting into a high power spiral into the ground, or 2) had an engine failure which resulted in a Vmc roll. Which would also result in a high power spiral into the ground.
Vmc is the minimum speed at which a 2 engine airplane can remain flying. It's similar to a stall, except that you lose airflow over the control surfaces(loss of control) and the bad engine pulls the aircraft down into a descending spiral, and with an engine failure the good engine would be a max power, which in the video is what it sounds like. There are tons of Vmc roll videos on youtube to get an understanding.

Juan checks in...

Excellent. Thank you. I've been waiting for his input.

I heard a retired commercial jet pilot call into a radio show, and said the plane was 40-something years old and was registered in Mexico, suggesting it was possible that the maintenance on that plane was probably wanting, as in a lot, and in that context it was more or less a matter of time. I suppose a rough analogy would be never changing the oil in a car and the engine blows up, something along those lines.

So I'm understanding this was a flight from Mexico and headed back to Mexico.
As all aboard were Mexican citizens.

The plane flew from Ft. Lauderdale to Port-au-Prince to Miami to Philly. Picked up the girl who was being treated there and the girl’s mother. They were then going to Mexico with a fuel stop in MO.

I quit looking back a Ft. Lauderdale.

There was a hyperbaric chamber onboard too.
From listening to the coms, it sounds like they were dealing with an issue.
That chamber may have caught fire or exploded.

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
There was a hyperbaric chamber onboard too.
From listening to the coms, it sounds like they were dealing with an issue.
That chamber may have caught fire or exploded.

This hyperbaric chamber DID explode, but it was on the ground.


5-year-old killed in hyperbaric chamber explosion in Michigan

The chamber contained 100% oxygen, making it extremely flammable.

ByJason Volack and Nadine El-Bawab
January 31, 2025, 11:54 AM

A 5-year-old boy was killed and his mother was injured Friday after a hyperbaric chamber exploded at a medical facility in Troy, Michigan.

The chamber contained 100% oxygen, making it extremely flammable, according to Lt. Keith Young of the Detroit Fire Department...

Complete article:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/5-ye...n/story?id=118311739

I keep toggling between an on-board fire or whether we're just seeing the plane's landing lights in the various videos. I know those planes usually have oxygen tanks as well, but a hyperbaric chamber explosion could certainly have put the aircraft into an unrecoverable condition. That was a pretty extreme loss of control.

Looks like loss of primary flight instruments, ended up upside down.

Can you imagine being this guy with the ballcap in the diner, one moment you're minding your own business working on your tuna melt and the next moment a chunk of airplane comes crashing through the window and nearly takes your head off?

https://x.com/DisrespectedThe/.../1886506281747320896

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PASig,

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Can you imagine being this guy with the ballcap in the diner, one moment you're minding your own business working on your tuna melt and the next moment a chunk of airplane comes crashing through the window and nearly takes your head off?

https://x.com/DisrespectedThe/.../1886506281747320896

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A child was hit shielding his sister.
A chunk of airframe stuck in his skull.
So far he survived and is critical.

From all the video of the plane coming in inverted, it's extremely possible it had an asymmetrical flap deployment or retraction from a failed attach point.

That would have spun it over inverted really quick with no time to figure out which condition produced it. Flaps up or flaps down. Not enough time to move the lever either way to try to correct.