quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Could icing cause that?

Wouldn't be the first time a plane nosedived into the ground due to a stall caused by icing.

I'm just south of Philadelphia currently. The weather is shitty--rainy and a lot of fog--but not particularly cold. About 50 degF right now. Of course that's the temperature on the ground.

Would icing cause it to be on fire, though?

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Would icing cause it to be on fire, though?

No, but hitting the ground with loaded fuel tanks at over 200 kts would.

^It seemed to be on fire as it came down.

Could be hundreds of different causes, not the least of which could be bird strikes.

Flight did not achieve altitude to encounter icing conditions. Bird strikes at night at 1609 feet are pretty unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^It seemed to be on fire as it came down.

I havent seen a video showing a plane on fire before impact- which one are you referencing?

There was a user supplied video on FOX with two guys going out a storm door and the plane going straight down, appearing to be on fire.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
There was a user supplied video on FOX with two guys going out a storm door and the plane going straight down, appearing to be on fire.

Ill look for that- if you find a link please post it. The other video I saw looked like it was just his front landing light coming in.

Here you go...

Thanks kk, I couldn't get it to post.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
There was a user supplied video on FOX with two guys going out a storm door and the plane going straight down, appearing to be on fire.

Ill look for that- if you find a link please post it. The other video I saw looked like it was just his front landing light coming in.

The nose landing light is attached the nose gear. At this point in the flight the nose should be in the wheel well and off, it automatically turns off when the gear is not down and locked.
Icing could be a factor, but not that quick into a flight, you're not gonna pick it up fast enough to matter, and the only way it would matter is if you got slow while iced up and stalled the aircraft.
On first look it appears to be uncontrolled flight,either through spatial disorientation(going into the clouds at low altitude and losing sense of where up or down is) or a stall or a combination of either.

It does appear that the nose landing light is on, which would lead me to believe the gear is down. If the gear is down at this altitude the crew has gotten distracted somehow. My guess so far is that they had an engine failure at liftoff or shortly thereafter, they forgot to raise the gear, then went into the clouds and either got disoriented and stalled, or got slow and stalled. You can hear the engine(s) are at high power as the plane is diving down with the gear down.

There is a level off of 2000 feet departing NE Philly and they should have been reducing power to make that level off. The only possible reason I could see them being at high power, gear down and out of control at that altitude is an engine failure and stall. Just my sunday evening quarterbacking, we'll see as more details comes out.

Thats a foward facing light, not a fire. I dont think a fire wouldnt look like that at that speed. I see photos online that the Lear 55 has a foward facing light at the top of the T-Tail- Im thinking its a taxi light, both landing lights are attached to the rear mains.

Imagine sitting in the drive-through like that minding your own business when all hell breaks loose overhead


https://x.com/stillgray/status...482929893368281?s=46




I know that area of Northeast Philadelphia pretty well as my relatives live only a few miles from there. It looks like it crashed into or near the Roosevelt Mall near Cottman Ave and Roosevelt Blvd.

Company operating plane in Philly crash had previous fatal incident in Mexico: reports

“Jet Rescue Air Ambulance operated a Learjet 35A in November 2023 that was involved in a deadly crash in southern Mexico.

In that incident, the aircraft crashed on landing at Cuernavaca Airport in Morelos, Mexico, on Nov. 1, 2023, after departing from Toluca International Airport in the city of Toluca. There were five crewmembers with no passengers on board and no survivors, the AirMed&Rescue website reported at the time.“

It's waay too soon to have any prediction what caused this accident.

Severe icing can accrete so quickly the aircraft can't handle it. There will be pilot reports from other aircraft in the area of such icing if it was happening.

The lack of any such reports so far, and no other information of a distress call means it could be any of dozens of causes.

Air ambulance services have a particularly bad safety record. Usually trying to be heroes by flying in terrible weather or other unusually challenging situations. It doesn't seem so far that this flight fits that pattern.

This couldn’t have been icing.

It was 50+ degrees and raining all day and night in SE Pennsylvania here.

quote:

Air ambulance services have a particularly bad safety record. Usually trying to be heroes by flying in terrible weather or other unusually challenging situations. It doesn't seem so far that this flight fits that pattern.

Oxygen use?

The cause of the mid-air incident remains unclear. Authorities are investigating what occurred in the skies over Philadelphia that led the pilots to become unresponsive with the Northeast Philadelphia Airport Tower before the aircraft entered a violent descent at 11,000 feet per minute, ultimately crashing into a city street.

Potential internal factors include an oxygen tank explosion or improper load balance. Externally, a loss of flight controls due to icing or a possible drone strike cannot be ruled out. However, these theories remain speculative, as authorities have yet to confirm any details while the investigation is ongoing.

https://www.zerohedge.com/mark...rtheast-philadelphia

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^It seemed to be on fire as it came down.

That's what caught my eye too.
Lots of plane crashes have (incorrect) eye witness reports of fire before the impact but this is a video. I've watched it several times and it does seem to be trailing flames as it goes down, not lights.

When I first heard of the crash, it sort of reminded me of the one years ago of the 747 cargo plane at Bagram when the load wasn't properly secured. Also on takeoff.

This one was a medical plane and modified for transport. Could similar issues have been in play here too? They were transporting a patient back to Mexico with one refueling stop planned, and the company is from Mexico. I'd curious to see if there have been maintenance issues with this company. They have had a previous fatal crash with just crew onboard. News reports indicated the crew and patient were all from Mexico.

I guess we'll have to wait for the investigation but I haven't even heard much speculation like you'd normally hear.