Thought of V-Tail when I saw the pic of the new Cirrus Vision Jet



Here is an article with an embedded video and more pics

The registration for the airplane in the linked article was issued on January 11, 2017. My 80th birthday. Is this a sign?

Definitely a sign.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
The registration for the airplane in the linked article was issued on January 11, 2017. My 80th birthday. Is this a sign?

Call cirrus get one on a 30 year note!

Why not?

:-)

Isn't their prop job (not sure if piston or turbo) called the "Doctor Killer?" Wonder what they will call this one. . .

Nice looking plane.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Isn't their prop job (not sure if piston or turbo) called the "Doctor Killer?" Wonder what they will call this one. . .

Nice looking plane.

I believe you're confusing it with the Beechcraft Bonanza as Cirrus' other aircraft are prop planes with traditional tails.

Notice they aren't bragging about the range with 45 minute reseve.

Lessee, 2000 lbs is 294 gallons at $4/gal, about $1200.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Isn't their prop job (not sure if piston or turbo) called the "Doctor Killer?"

As tatortodd said, that was originally the name for the Bonanza. Of course, the new plane of any era has the potential to attract people for the wrong reason.

I owned a Cirrus SR22. Wonderful plane and I'm still alive.

Bonanzas are not doctor killers.

Some doctors are Bonanza killers.

I remember this.

Beginning Jan. 1, 2010, a new Vision Jet production position reservation will require a non-refundable $50,000 deposit to secure a maximum purchase price of $1.72 million. All prices are in 2009 dollars.

I wonder what they are pricing it at now?

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
I wonder what they are pricing it at now?

The linked article says $2M

The nickname for the 35 series of Bonanzas was "the Forked-Tailed Doctor Killer." I think three issues caused this:

1) The Bonanza is a VERY slippery airplane. If an airplane driver (not the same thing as a pilot) loses control of a Bonanza and lets it assume a nose down attitude, it will accelerate extremely quickly.

2) The Bonanza family has _negative_ dynamic roll stability and positive static and dynamic pitch stability. If it is disturbed off of straight and level, it's natural tendency is to continue banking in the same direction. Left alone by an airplane driver, it will eventually end up in an accelerating nose down spiral. *See exercise below.

3) Apparently too many doctors had too much money and were able to afford to step up to more airplane than they were qualified to handle. A bit of inattention in IMC and they were in serious trouble.

*The Bonanza divergent roll exercise: Make sure you have Va (maneuvering speed) memorized for the airplane at the weight you'll be flying at. Get some altitude and some uncongested airspace. Trim the airplane out for slow flight and put your hands in your lap and feet on the floor (no fair keeping it wings level with the ruddervators, leaving aside the ruddervator-aileron interconnect.) Just cruise, scan for traffic, and wait. Sooner or later a wing will drop a little. It could be a gust, could be a fuel imbalance, it doesn't matter what causes it, it will happen. Once this happens, the airplane will continue banking, getting to a steeper and steeper bank angle. As the bank increases, so does the horizontal component of lift (HCL), tightening the turn. As the HCL increases, the vertical component of lift (VCL) decreases, causing the nose to drop more and more. While all this is going on, watch the airspeed carefully. Shortly before reaching Va (maneuvering speed, that speed at which one can make abrupt control inputs without breaking or bending the airplane), reach up, grab the yoke, roll wings level, then immediately let go and put your hands back in your lap. The airplane's natural tendency to return to trimmed airspeed will cause it to pull some Gs. It will nose up sharply all on its own with no input from you. Stabilize, trim out, head back to the barn or whatever you plan to do next.

When you have some time to ponder, consider that you entered this exercise trimmed for slow flight and terminated it upon reaching Va, or better yet a little below. Consider also that the folks who came to grief in the airplane were likely trimmed for cruise, (starting out above Va), were often in IMC, scared shitless, and pulling like heck. Every airplane has a G loading at which it will break. Stay away from those loads and you won't have that problem.

The Bonanza family (the V-tail 35s, the straight tailed 33s and 36s, and I'd lump in the 95 Travel Airs and the 55, 56, and 58 Barons as they are all built on the same basic fuselage with minor changes) are damned fine solid airplanes, but you do have to fly them. They are not a good choice for someone unwilling or unable to get adequate training and be aware of their personal limitations.

Isn't that jet exhaust going to mess up the paint in the "V" tail?

Had one here at Port Columbus the other night

Very tidy explanation, Slosig.
So simple, even a flight Nurse could understand it

Thanks,

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Bonanzas are not doctor killers.

Some doctors are Bonanza killers.

Now THAT is funny.

And I was correct with the reference to the Cirrus SR-22.

/05/dicks-blog-whats-wrong-with-cirru

It's no apparent fault with the airplane - it's just like giving a 16-yr old kid a Dodge Hellcat and wondering why he wrapped it around a tree. . .

Another article I found when Googling "Cirrus Doctor Killer" (it even auto-completed the phrase for me) was an aeticle stating the Cirrus to be the 'New Bonanza'. . .

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
And I was correct with the reference to the Cirrus SR-22.

/05/dicks-blog-whats-wrong-with-cirru

It's no apparent fault with the airplane - it's just like giving a 16-yr old kid a Dodge Hellcat and wondering why he wrapped it around a tree. . .

Another article I found when Googling "Cirrus Doctor Killer" (it even auto-completed the phrase for me) was an aeticle stating the Cirrus to be the 'New Bonanza'. . .

I haven't read the article yet, but above link no bueno. Suggest trying the below instead:

http://airfactsjournal.com/201...-with-cirrus-pilots/

ETA: Okay, read the article and agree with a lot of it. One thing he didn't hit that I think important is what I'll call "The safety promise of a glass cockpit vs the reality." IMO, a glass cockpit can be a huge safety benefit for the pilot who is thoroughly trained on it and knows it backwards and forwards.. The pilot who buys the pretty glass cockpit for all the safety benefit and doesn't train and study on it is probably worse off than he'd be with steam gauges. When you're focused on the electronics, trying to figure out "WTF is it doing now?" or digging through the manual trying to figure out "How do I get it into <whatever> mode?" you are not aviating, navigating, or communicating. Without the right training, all that wonderful glass becomes a dangerous distraction instead of a boon to safety. I seem to remember that the last words on the AA 757 CVR when it aluminum plated a hillside near Cali, Columbia were, "What is it doing now?" or something very similar.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
And I was correct with the reference to the Cirrus SR-22.

/05/dicks-blog-whats-wrong-with-cirru

It's no apparent fault with the airplane - it's just like giving a 16-yr old kid a Dodge Hellcat and wondering why he wrapped it around a tree. . .

Another article I found when Googling "Cirrus Doctor Killer" (it even auto-completed the phrase for me) was an aeticle stating the Cirrus to be the 'New Bonanza'. . .

I haven't read the article yet, but above link no bueno. Suggest trying the below instead:

http://airfactsjournal.com/201...-with-cirrus-pilots/

The article I posted 3 hours ago, called the Cirrus the Geek Killer since it came to market in 2001 at the same time as the .com boom.

The Bonanza already had the doctor killer moniker for several decades by then.

slosig: Good explanation for what you call "the Bonanza divergent roll" and what my wife calls the "the deadly Bonanza spiral." Sounds as if you've spent some time instructing in this series. Actually, it's not restricted to Bonanzas, it can happen with any fast airplane. The more aerodynamically "slippery" the airplane is, the more likely this scenario.

The exercise, pretty much as you describe it, is part of my teaching routine in Bonanzas, with one additional component that I add. At the point where you say "roll wings level, then immediately let go and put your hands in your lap," you point out, correctly, that returning to trimmed airspeed will cause it to pull some Gs.

If this return to trimmed airspeed is fast, the G load might me excessive, so what I teach is to apply a bit of forward pressure on the yoke. Totally counter-intuitive, and it goes against every instinct. We don't apply enough forward pressure to keep the nose below the horizon, but just only enough to slow the rate at which the pitch trim system tries to bring the nose up. Reducing this rate of pitch-up will reduce the G load.

The first time I demo this for a pilot, s/he might be a little apprehensive, but once the trainee understands what is going on, it is not an adrenaline-producing exercise. I demo once, then have the trainee do it and verbalize each step as it occurs. Two or three repetitions, and the lesson has been learned. I strongly believe that twenty minutes spent on this exercise can be a life-saver. It might have saved JFK Jr.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
The article I posted 3 hours ago, called the Cirrus the Geek Killer since it came to market in 2001 at the same time as the .com boom.

The Bonanza already had the doctor killer moniker for several decades by then.

Yes, it did. Sorry, I didn't click on the link you had labeled "the Beechcraft Bonanza" the first time around. My memory may be off, but I'd have sworn that the .com bubble burst sometime in 2000. I remember several of us talking about how we didn't whether to feel sad for the folks who had lost jobs or thankful that Bay Area traffic (at least in the South Bay & Peninsula had been dramatically upgraded from truly abysmal most of the time to generally just lousy and occasionally better. That's a lot further back than last week though, so my memory could be completely off...