Maybe he set the shotgun down to scoop the money, forgot it, left and was coming back to retrieve it to find the two women behind the register armed.

“Women and children can be careless, but not men.” Vito Corleone

You can see the shotgun in his hands when he first appears, steals the money, and leaves the first time. He still has it when he returns (if you go through the frames, you can see him holding it when he re-enters). He is then shot by the ladies cowering behind the counter, and runs outside a second time. He clearly no longer has it when he re-enters again for the third time, and begins yelling and then wrestling for the revolver.

It appears that he likely dropped his shotgun outside, sometime between getting shot and running out (for the second time) and re-entering (for the third time).

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
The shotgun appears very briefly at 13 sec time mark

And again at the 37 second mark, held in his right hand, next to his right leg, pointing at the ground as he re-enters. It's only very briefly visible as he comes through the door, in the lower right hand corner of the video.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
“Okay, boys and girls, why is it all right to shoot someone like that as he’s running away, and ‘No longer poses a threat’? Can we see some hands? Yes, Jennifer—?”

“Because he might come back and continue to try to kill you, and after he comes back it may not be possible to stop him then.”

“Yes, Jennifer, that’s correct. Did everyone hear what Jennifer said?”

It’s worth repeating.

I do hope they upgrade or at least get some training.

I must applaud their choice to be armed - and demonstrating the mettle to defend themselves using deadly force. Good job ladies.

That being said, they do need some more efficient hardware and some additional training.

The 'shotgun' looks like a sawed off single shot. It was either unloaded, non-functional - or the brain trust is smart enough to know if he shoots someone, he's going to be getting a long stint in a cage - and maybe even a needle in his arm.

I've seen this many times where the perp is armed - but really does not have the will to actually shoot someone. They hype themselves up believing that their prey will submit when they present deadly force and issue demands. The good thing for us is, we don't have to debate their intent when they do so. We are allowed to meet the threat of deadly force - with deadly force.

When the intended victim suddenly presents their own firearm, I've seen perps freeze up not knowing what to do - because they are not mentally prepared for lethal resistance.

The scum in this instance is one of those. A coward.

Best thing that could happen at this point is for him to die.

I can't help but be reminded of that gun store video where the owner pops one of the two intended robbers with a 1911. No dancing was to be seen that day, unless you consider his partner's door dash flight a form of ballet.

Wow. The lady is lucky she didn’t kill her friend at about the 1:21 mark.

We're missing another argument. The one for higher capacity magazines. If one of the ladies ran out of ammo, she would argue for more capacity. While I'd advocate aiming (a unique idea), there is some advantage to spray and pray. It takes a pretty nervy dirt bag to advance into the hail of lead, if the person doing the shooting can just keep it up long enough, eventually the receiver of that lead might decide to not come back.

We have posters here suggesting all sorts of other calibers. Looks to me like they weren't hitting with what they had. More recoil probably wouldn't be an avantage to them. Maybe having more shots would result in more ineffective misses and a few more hits. I wouldn't mind seeing the robber shot a few more times. Maybe a half dozen in each leg or arm. Damn that hurts, Trevon. Think you should try coming back inside?

I know you big muscular guys all think everyone should shoot a 1911. But just a couple of dozen 22s in the abdomen would make that guy suffer a bit more. I'm not really blood thirsty, I'd just like the guy to have more choices where to leak from.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I'm about 90 minutes away. I should stop in and buy to support them. Maybe I'll go up later this week.

Not to be cavalier, but this reminds me of the old joke: Why do you carry a 45? Because they don't make a .46

People are supporting them.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
We're missing another argument. The one for higher capacity magazines. If one of the ladies ran out of ammo, she would argue for more capacity.

ESPECIALLY if you're not going to carry it, there's no reason not to have full sized gun. Possibly another case of the "ladies gun". An old idea that sadly still goes on today, people thinking for some reason that "cute" little guns are better suited for woman. I saw it last week in a store, a woman looking at some little tiny gun that even the most skilled shooter would have trouble hitting anything with. I don't know who's idea it was, the woman or the guy behind the counter, but either way it was a bad one.

So has this shit-stain kicked the "I was just turning my life around" bucket or is he gonna make it?

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
We're missing another argument. The one for higher capacity magazines. If one of the ladies ran out of ammo, she would argue for more capacity.

ESPECIALLY if you're not going to carry it, there's no reason not to have full sized gun. Possibly another case of the "ladies gun". An old idea that sadly still goes on today, people thinking for some reason that "cute" little guns are better suited for woman. I saw it last week in a store, a woman looking at some little tiny gun that even the most skilled shooter would have trouble hitting anything with. I don't know who's idea it was, the woman or the guy behind the counter, but either way it was a bad one.

The Sig Sauer P238 .380 is an AWESOME carry weapon for ladies and even some men.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news...a6-6f30b855ad9e.html

He is in and induced coma.

Still hope he'll take the Little Black Train.

Little Black Train hahaha

This shows those folks not familiar with Okla. women, they will shoot your ass off if necessary. Good job ladies!!

Ladies with guns reminds me of mrs tac's favourite of all pieces, and one that she took a lot of pocket change off unknowing members of our base police unit on Wednesday afternoon range sessions - a 4" bbl Model 29 with Hogue grips. Her preferred load was the 240gr JHP over 22gr of 2400.

A real attention-getter.

When I was away - a frquent occurrence - it was her go-to gun, with a SIG230 back-up.

tac

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
We're missing another argument. The one for higher capacity magazines. If one of the ladies ran out of ammo, she would argue for more capacity. While I'd advocate aiming (a unique idea), there is some advantage to spray and pray. It takes a pretty nervy dirt bag to advance into the hail of lead, if the person doing the shooting can just keep it up long enough, eventually the receiver of that lead might decide to not come back.

We have posters here suggesting all sorts of other calibers. Looks to me like they weren't hitting with what they had. More recoil probably wouldn't be an avantage to them. Maybe having more shots would result in more ineffective misses and a few more hits. I wouldn't mind seeing the robber shot a few more times. Maybe a half dozen in each leg or arm. Damn that hurts, Trevon. Think you should try coming back inside?

I know you big muscular guys all think everyone should shoot a 1911. But just a couple of dozen 22s in the abdomen would make that guy suffer a bit more. I'm not really blood thirsty, I'd just like the guy to have more choices where to leak from.

They must have landed quite a few. Some were obvious, and he is in a coma trying to live. More hits is always better as long as they get through clothing into the body, etc.

He had a couple of hits before he came back, which makes me wonder if it was to retrieve his shotty.

My count made me think the revolver was empty, but I don’t know if it was a 5 shot or 6.

Some knowledgeable shooters say placement is everything, and at the distances these women were dealing with, that should not have been a problem.... more range time!

I still hark back to the story posted now and then by the morgue worker who details observations of hundreds of shooting victims of all sizes, ages, etc who ended up in the morgue. Some were dropped with a single .22 hit, others took multiple .357 rounds. The quote I remember was, “There is no such thing as an attempted suicide with a .44 magnum.”

There are countless threads (all over the interwebz) about which camera is the best one. The wise answer is the one you have with you, point being to have one when you need it.

These ladies had the best gun possible, by that criteria, and I can't fault them. My "take-away" from this is that I need to carry more consistently when possible.

quote:

We have posters here suggesting all sorts of other calibers. Looks to me like they weren't hitting with what they had. More recoil probably wouldn't be an avantage to them. Maybe having more shots would result in more ineffective misses and a few more hits.

Yes. And the logic comes from not being able to determine whether the problem was not enough accuracy or poor terminal ballistics. Or both.

Thus the recommendations for training and/or more effective chamberings.

I do not agree with that last statement. Hurling projectiles (and being responsible for every one of them) and hoping for ratios to kick in is not a great strategy.

How are some of you able to view the Live Leak video frame by frame?

Just a couple observations:

Observation 1- From where the LL video picks up the robbery is already in progress with the BG behind the counter. Interestingly, the young woman remains next to him with her hand on the computer mouse and looking at the computer monitor. My best guess would be that this is simply a ruse to remain in close proximity to where she knows the handguns are hidden, but I still think it is interesting behavior for victim to display when that close to an armed BG.

Observation 2- While it is obvious that both women knew the handguns were present, other than that they really didn't seem to have a plan. I realize that confusion occurs in armed encounters, and that plans quickly go to hell, but there seemed to be hesitation and delay in which of the women would make the 911 call and whether any of them would cover the entrance while the call was being made. Under the circumstances I'm sure they improvised as best they could, but I think this is food for thought and a good reminder to not just have a gun present but a plan in place that includes a basic knowledge of what tasks need to be performed during and immediately after a shooting and task assignments.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
We're missing another argument. The one for higher capacity magazines. If one of the ladies ran out of ammo, she would argue for more capacity. While I'd advocate aiming (a unique idea), there is some advantage to spray and pray. It takes a pretty nervy dirt bag to advance into the hail of lead, if the person doing the shooting can just keep it up long enough, eventually the receiver of that lead might decide to not come back.

We have posters here suggesting all sorts of other calibers. Looks to me like they weren't hitting with what they had. More recoil probably wouldn't be an avantage to them. Maybe having more shots would result in more ineffective misses and a few more hits. I wouldn't mind seeing the robber shot a few more times. Maybe a half dozen in each leg or arm. Damn that hurts, Trevon. Think you should try coming back inside?

I know you big muscular guys all think everyone should shoot a 1911. But just a couple of dozen 22s in the abdomen would make that guy suffer a bit more. I'm not really blood thirsty, I'd just like the guy to have more choices where to leak from.

This was my first thought after watching the video.

By my count 5 rounds were fired from the revolver (the first 4 rounds were fired fairly quickly once the shooting started) and two rounds were fired from the small semi-auto. Obviously we have no way of knowing how many rounds struck the BG (but obviously at least some of them did). If the revolver was indeed empty I'm not even sure the older women even realized that she was out of ammo.

7 rounds fired to cause the BG to stop his attack and exit the scene. Damn straight, while there may have been enough rounds to stop the attack in this incident, that is certainly no guarantee that it wouldn't take even more rounds in a different scenario. Higher capacity magazines most certainly do have a place in defensive use.

With all the recent negative gun press it is good to see instances like this one in which a gun was used to save lives.

One must be willing to employ the Sonny Corleone method of thug prevention.....

The ladies did good with what they had. They needed a better gun.

A woman friend has a Taurus Judge. I have fired it with 3" .410 shot shells. Would also work with buckshot or slugs.

At the ranges mentioned in the article, seems to me that one of these pistols loaded with alternate shot and slug shells would pretty quickly convince a bad guy to either leave the scene or lay down and die.

410 slugs in the upper body, or belly, would be an admirable argument for changing locations, post haste.

in Floyd's video above, it says the women tried to lock him in a space between 2 doors. but one door didn't lock. Guess that was the one back into the store

another pic from that video

Good on them! I do want to buy them bigger guns or better ammo.

The comments on the video were hillarious. I liked this one in particular "Mothers should not have to fearfor their sons lives when they are out robbing stores."

I wonder if CNN, BLM & co. will seek to outlaw 380s and 38 snubs now? Hey homey, how you liking that taste of 2nd amendment? Regards 18DAI