I have noticed public refueling power outlets for electric cars at parking lots of government buildings, hotels, and on public streets which are apparently "free" for the user. Is the user paying for their electric recharge in some way that is not apparent or is the recharging really without cost to the owner of the vehicle?

You're paying for it with the tax money the state steals from your wallet.

Nothing is free, NOTHING. Someone always pays.

quote:

Originally posted by roberth:

Nothing is free, NOTHING.

The three rules of thermodynamics:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.

There is no energy that is free.

Who pays for it? The same people who paid for part of the purchase price in the form of a subsidy.

If you want to see who is paying for it, look in a mirror. The person you see in that mirror also pays to maintain the life style of that portion of the population that chooses to live on welfare.

Welcome to the society that is winning the war on poverty.

(As I said in another thread, I am feeling particularly grumpy today.)

Like I've said over the years, "Your tax dollars at work".

It is worse than that....they are also not paying road use/maint taxes that are tied to gasoline/diesel.

According to both Tesla and the Florida Turnpike Authority (where there are chargers at certain rest areas), Tesla pays.

No matter what path you take, it always leads to you, the consumer, paying. Even at hotels, which are private property, the cost of installing/maintaining the chargers and the electric bill is still factored into the price of that room. The price for an individual may not be that high because it is spread among hundreds or thousands of guests, but it's still there.

I think there should be a $50,000 road tax on every electric vehicle at the time of sale

if they're not buying gas, they're not paying for their fair share of road maintenance, upgrades and infrastructure

quote:

Originally posted by alreadydead:
It is worse than that....they are also not paying road use/maint taxes that are tied to gasoline/diesel.

Correct. Colorado taxes 22 cents per gallon on gasoline, that money used to go straight to CDOT for roads, not anymore.

IIRC Colorado loads all state revenues into the General Fund and disperse from there. That way they can pay the illegal aliens, gov't cronies, and other welfare scum from monies intended for infrastructure and other items that would benefit the taxpayer.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
According to both Tesla and the Florida Turnpike Authority (where there are chargers at certain rest areas), Tesla pays.

And where did Tesla get the money?

Drumroll please...........


The taxpayers!!! Ding, ding, ding!

Here in Greene County TN when you renew your tag if you have an electric car you have an additional $100 on top of the $80 for the tag to help pay for the charging stations but I have never seen a charging station

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
According to both Tesla and the Florida Turnpike Authority (where there are chargers at certain rest areas), Tesla pays.

And where did Tesla get the money?

Drumroll please...........


The taxpayers!!! Ding, ding, ding!

This is exactly why, when go to my local grocery store which has 6 charging stations in front of the store that are never used I feel not shame or guilt parking in one of them....once in a while, for effect, i will toss the charging cable under my car but that is only is someone is watching

It's a classic subsidy. To encourage "X", the government uses general funds raised from all taxpayers (or borrowed) to reduce the net price of "X" in order to drive demand for up from where free-market economics would otherwise have set it.

In the above, for "X" you can substitute "Electric Cars", "Domestic Sugar", "Solar cells" etc. here in the US.

'Cause, you know, bureaucrats and politicians know ever so much more than the rest of us.

Slight drift but semi on topic - why are the electric parking spots always boldly called out, huge compared to a standard one, and located in a premium location nearest doors / elevators?
It's like this billboard of how morally superior you are saving the earth and all you get this perk.
My thought is if you are such a morally superior granola eating vegan you are supposed to be in superior fitness so your ass should walk. Put those spots in the back of the lot!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yuh know, Dusty? I was thinking the same damned thing! If they're so "in touch with mother earth", why is their parking spot up front? Don't they have steps to do on their fit-bit or whateverinthehell it is??

What makes you think electric car charging stations are free?
I don’t own an electric vehicle, but I was under the impression that most of them required payment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/c...s-who-should-profit/

8,147 viewsNov 8, 2017, 08:00am
Who Should Pay For Electric Vehicle Chargers? Who Should Profit?


Electric vehicle chargers are critical in getting rid of “range anxiety,” the fear of running out of charge with no station in sight. (Retrieved from Wikimedia)

Electric vehicles are unlikely to win broad market acceptance unless they can be charged quickly and easily anywhere in America.

Chargers are critical in getting rid of “range anxiety,” the fear of running out of charge with no station in sight. There is a debate among states as to whether utilities should be allowed to own and operate charging infrastructure for electric cars. Missouri, Michigan and Kansas all have turned down utilities’ requests to build charging stations with customers’ money.

Utilities have been experiencing sluggish growth for several years due to stagnant demand and the requirement to integrate new energy sources. Thus, some utilities want to own and operate electric car chargers to increase profit.
California initially feared that allowing utilities to own and operate charging infrastructure would stifle private competition. Furthermore, it would demand electric customers to subsidize infrastructure that would only be used by a minority. This is why the Golden State banned utilities from investing in such infrastructure.

The ban was lifted in 2015. California has since realized that electric vehicle chargers are necessary to meet its ambitious electric transportation and environmental goals.
Public utilities in California are eager to move forward with electric car chargers. Southern California Edison filed a plan to raise $570 million over five years for 50 fast-charging ports that could charge cars in under 30 minutes. The funds will also be used to develop charging stations for electric buses and trucks and implement rate incentives to encourage electric vehicle owners to charge during off-peak hours.

This plan is in addition to Southern California Edison’s approved program to deploy 1,500 Level 2 chargers at workplaces and multifamily houses. The strategy includes an emphasis on incorporating third-party electric vehicle charging equipment and network providers.


3 Ways Social Selling Can Supercharge Your Sales Team
Pacific Gas & Electric has been approved for a $130 million hybrid ownership program for 7,500 electric vehicle charging stations in northern and central California over three years. It will be the nation’s single-largest deployment of charging stations for electric vehicles.
Under this hybrid model, Pacific Gas & Electric will own and maintain charging stations installed by third-party vendors in underserved markets, such as apartment complexes and workplaces located in disadvantaged communities. Outside of disadvantaged communities, Pacific Gas & Electric will not own or maintain charging stations, but will support electrical infrastructure from the power line to the charging station.

San Diego Gas & Electric was also approved for a $45 million pilot of utility-owned chargers. This program will install 3,500 charging stations at 350 businesses, apartment complexes and condominium communities in its service territory.

Massachusetts allows utilities to build the underground infrastructure for a charging station, but leaves the above-ground installation to a private company. This is an arrangement called a “make ready.” As a result, the utility National Grid is proposing to spend $24 million on 140 sites. This approach may relieve private companies of the fear that utilities will squeeze them out of the market.
In Texas, only utilities are allowed to own and operate electric vehicle charging stations. Sellers of electricity are required to demonstrate that they have “the financial and technical resources to provide continuous and reliable service to customers in the area.”

As a result, private entities in Texas are not able to own or operate these stations. However, some companies have partnered with municipally owned electric companies to provide charging services legally. Utilities have been actively installing charging stations in the state, including in urban areas.

Even with these new developments, some states are still reluctant to permit utilities to pay for electric vehicle charging infrastructure with ratepayer dollars. Some states are against utilities building charging stations because it would force electricity customers to pay for a service that not all will use.

Ameren submitted a request to earn a return on charging infrastructure and was turned down by the Missouri Public Service Commission. The board found that installing and operating electric vehicle charging stations is fundamentally different from operating an electric utility. If utilities in Missouri want to enter this business they must operate in the free marketplace and cannot charge customers for the cost.
In addition, Kansas City Power & Light submitted a similar request for more than a thousand charging stations. The Kansas Corporation Commission denied the request on the grounds that environmental benefits and demand were not clear for the infrastructure, among other factors. According to the commission, “Let the private sector invest in the [electric vehicle] market, rather than have ratepayers finance the speculative venture.”

Kentucky is an example of one state that has implemented a fair solution to allow utilities to install and operate charging infrastructure and only charge customers that use the service. Louisville Gas and Electric and Kentucky Utilities are allowed to install and operate up to 20 charging stations, and can build and get paid for placing them on commercial properties. Costs will be recouped by charging customers a little under $3 per hour to charge their car. Thus, electricity customers who do not utilize this infrastructure will not pay at all.

Allowing utilities to build electric vehicle charging infrastructure could help their business models and ease customers’ range anxiety. However, until electric cars are used by more customers, it does not seem fair to use ratepayer dollars to pay for this infrastructure. Kentucky is a great example of how utilities could use their expertise and engineering background to safely own and operate electric vehicle charging infrastructure while ensuring that only customers that actually utilize the service pay.

quote:

Originally posted by LoungeChair:
What makes you think electric car charging stations are free?
I don’t own an electric vehicle, but I was under the impression that most of them required payment.

They do. If I use public charging I use 480v fast chargers and my card or membership is tied to a credit card, and believe me I pay. I mostly charge at home and work however. I rarely use public infrastructure but when I do, there is certainly a charge/cost.

Hotels, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc, are installing them to entice people to stay there or shop there. Here, IKEA has them, and yes you pay for them, have to have a membership/card to use them and the cost is by the minute. Same for a breastraunt chain here called Twin Peaks. There are 3-4 companies who install the chargers at various brick and mortars, and none are free to use.

Then there are chargers at all the Nissan dealerships. Some have 480v and you pay to use those. 240v is no charge, but I own a Nissan so home turf if you like. On the road I really don’t use 240v as I have that at home in the garage so I don’t want to sit anywhere waiting on that slow shit. 480v is all I will use on the road and it ain’t free.

At all of the above I have experienced gas vehicles hogging up the spots preventing use or access of the charger. In a few cases I’ve called the number on the charger and had the vehicle towed away. After waiting 20 or 30 minutes you are inconveniencing me to no end and it is time for your vehicle to move. This is becoming common and towing the offenders is becoming more common. At a Twin Peaks one day there was a truck parked in one of two spots and the guy thought he was funny. He had pulled the charger cord off the charger and plugged it in to his tow hitch. They got on the PA and asked whomever to move. Nobody flinched. 3 minutes later they were told it would be towed and some guy comes flying.
So park there at your own risk.

I’ve listened to this bullshit for 4 years now as I use an electric car for daily driving/commuting for cost reasons. I use gas on the weekends and enjoy it so it is not a political thing to me. Every gallon of gasoline is subsidized by the US government so those pointing at electric power for vehicles are being hypocrites. We have subsidized oil for decades. And when I use gas, 14% of that gallon comes from the Middle East. When I use electric power, 100% of it is USA made, or harnessed from the sun as I have panels on the house. I daily drive an electric vehicle because it is cheaper to power, kWh cost less per mile than gasoline, sometimes 1/10th of gasoline cost. There is also much less maintenance on an electric power plant. The car sees the dealership once per year for state inspection and that’s it. I will use or keep mine until there is a compact electric truck at which point I will trade in.

quote:

Colorado taxes 22 cents per gallon on gasoline, that money used to go straight to CDOT for roads, not anymore.

IIRC Colorado loads all state revenues into the General Fund and disperse from there...

Pima County, AZ tried that shit several years ago and county Treasurer got her ass handed to her. Liquid fuel tax monies are earmarked for road maintenance/repair, only.

Politicians love to "raid" taxpayer programs in order to balance the annual state budget.

Pennsylvania has a dedicated self funded motorcycle rider course, free to state residents, with an annual surplus of around $3 million. Course is available in nearly all PA counties. Bikers pay into this with an annual surcharge on license renewal, permits, tag registrations, etc..

Some Pa politicians were pissed they cannot dip into that pile of cash.