I saw nothing in the article that says this is the pope's or the church's (as a whole) view.

quote:

In a provocative editorial, the Catholic Archdiocese of Mexico said on Sunday that Mexicans who help build U.S. President Donald Trump's planned border wall would be acting immorally and should be deemed traitors.

This seems more like one jerkoff shooting off his mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
The "Social Justice Warriors" have taken over the Roman Church in America. Those "second collections" we're never supposed to occur again after the institution of the "Catholic Services Appeal" in the late 1980s/early 1990s, to compete against the October beg-athons of United Way.

Once the pederast priests got exposed, the civil litigation happened with the massive pay-outs; my Archdiocese got nailed for $26 Million, which caused divestiture of lots of real estate property and sale of financial assets in order to settle the court claims. And that's when the "second collections", the so-called "reaching out" giving, started up again.

And Catholic Charities is nothing more than a scheme for the continued enabling of human trafficking, under the guise of refugee resettlement.

I refuse to give them "one thin dime".

If this keeps up, I'll go over to the Eastern Rite Greek Orthodox, as they are close enough in theology for me to be comfortable with.

I was gonna stay out of this, but this gives me the perfect opening for my question:

What is "The Church", ANY church, doing with 26 million dollars worth of assets? "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven".

All these assets, millions, if not billions of dollars worth of art and real estate, and they need 10% of MY measly income to feed the poor?

I think not.

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
The Catholic Church is mostly responsible for opening my eyes to atheism. Had I been born into some other denomination I might not have been exposed to the absurdity of religion.

This pope is going to do that for millions more with his bullshit.

100% of the atheists I personally know are former catholics. Interesting.

The first time I ever heard the words "social justice" was a reference to a committee being formed in the local parish. That was back in the late 70s, so not exactly recent.

I belong to the Episcopal church and have ever since 1974. I have not attended services for the past five years, but do regularly attend a weekday morning men's breakfast.

My church has left me. It is not the church I joined over forty years ago. It has taken a hard left turn. It seems to stand for everything I'm against.

A few years back, my local church sponsored a local young woman to become a priest. I wasn't paying much attention at the time, but she went to a seminary in San Francisco. Years later I discovered on Face book that in the university, her major was "social justice"! Holy Toledo Crap!

What the hell kind of major is that? She majored in socialism?

In the 80's I lived in Salt Lake City and was a member of St. Marks cathedral. The bishop at that time was a guy named Otis Charles. After we left SLC and he had retired he came out of the closet. After that he moved to San Francisco and married some clown. If you really want a hoot, look up Otis Charles of both Google and YouTube. It is disgusting.

My wife and myself felt let down by the bishop. He was living a lie all that time.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
The "Social Justice Warriors" have taken over the Roman Church in America. Those "second collections" we're never supposed to occur again after the institution of the "Catholic Services Appeal" in the late 1980s/early 1990s, to compete against the October beg-athons of United Way.

Once the pederast priests got exposed, the civil litigation happened with the massive pay-outs; my Archdiocese got nailed for $26 Million, which caused divestiture of lots of real estate property and sale of financial assets in order to settle the court claims. And that's when the "second collections", the so-called "reaching out" giving, started up again.

And Catholic Charities is nothing more than a scheme for the continued enabling of human trafficking, under the guise of refugee resettlement.

I refuse to give them "one thin dime".

If this keeps up, I'll go over to the Eastern Rite Greek Orthodox, as they are close enough in theology for me to be comfortable with.

I was gonna stay out of this, but this gives me the perfect opening for my question:

What is "The Church", ANY church, doing with 26 million dollars worth of assets? "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven".

All these assets, millions, if not billions of dollars worth of art and real estate, and they need 10% of MY measly income to feed the poor?

I think not.

Isn't the Catholic church the largest private land owner in the world, or something nuts like that?

My Episcopal upbringing taught me early about hypocrisy and hatred. I always believed that there was some huuuuge difference between "us" and Catholics because almost everyone in our church seemed to hate Catholics to their very core. Many years later I came to find out how little difference there is between the two denominations and how the Episcopal church separated from the Catholic Church.

Seems to me that it was much like brothers heartily fighting over some insignificant issue as children and now as adults they still harbor hate and resentment.

I am proudly Christian, but non-denominational. I enjoy a good sermon and discussion of the word but I like it when they keep to the Bible without the pomp and add in ceremony. Power corrupts, lots of power to be had by church leaders, elders, ministers, priests, etc.

Many years ago I nearly got into a physical fight with a fellow Marine when the pope was visiting LA and I showed no deference. He kept explaining how the pope was God's chosen representative and how I should be in awe and bow before him. I pointed out that A) I wasn't catholic and B) how such fawning over a man seems much like idol worship to me.

Being a crass Marine, I pointed out that the pope is a mortal man and that his butt requires wiping after he craps. This is what set off my coworker who evidently believed that the pope either was barren of bodily functions, or if there was waste that exited the papal pooper it was something to be cherished, polished, and put on display.


As another poster noted, why exactly is such wealth accumulated and stored by the churches? Seems counter to the very ethos of the idea. Use the resources to do good and spread the word, not stockpile and hoard.

The accumulation of wealth and increasing political involvement of many churches leads me to seriously question the legitimacy of the tax-free status they enjoy.

I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm actually joining the Church. I get confirmed at the Easter Vigil. I like a lot of what Pope Francis has done when compared with his immediate predecessor, though I do at times wish he'd step down from the political soap box.

The current pope is a Commie plain and simple. This Catholic will not set foot in or donate to the Church until he's history. Fuck him and his liberal agenda.

We had a thread like this recently. I will never be anything but Catholic, that's how I was raised: parochial school, altar boy, pre-nuptial classes prior to our Catholic wedding, and Parish Council member. There is a nun and there were two Jesuit priests in the extended family.

The pedophile priest scandal hit me hard, and it went on and on. I was taught that the Pope is infallible when making decisions on matters of the Church. Covering up the priest scandal, allowing the transfer of pedophile priests from parish to parish for years disclosed that they are all too fallible.

This Pope's socialist pronouncements and activities just fortified our decision to be comfortable as non-practicing Catholics.

quote:

Originally posted by Gutpile Charlie:
I belong to the Episcopal church and have ever since 1974. I have not attended services for the past five years, but do regularly attend a weekday morning men's breakfast.

My church has left me. It is not the church I joined over forty years ago. It has taken a hard left turn. It seems to stand for everything I'm against.

A few years back, my local church sponsored a local young woman to become a priest. I wasn't paying much attention at the time, but she went to a seminary in San Francisco. Years later I discovered on Face book that in the university, her major was "social justice"! Holy Toledo Crap!

What the hell kind of major is that? She majored in socialism?

In the 80's I lived in Salt Lake City and was a member of St. Marks cathedral. The bishop at that time was a guy named Otis Charles. After we left SLC and he had retired he came out of the closet. After that he moved to San Francisco and married some clown. If you really want a hoot, look up Otis Charles of both Google and YouTube. It is disgusting.

My wife and myself felt let down by the bishop. He was living a lie all that time.

Personally, I find Episcopalians worse than Catholics with regard to social justice warrior nonsense--and that's saying a lot.

I ended up in a hotel once with an Episcopalian convention of some sort going on and took a look at some topics of the talks they were giving--and got a gander at the "clergy" at the event--and said "nope".

Episcopalians might as well be Unitarian Universalists as far as I'm concerned.

quote:

I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm actually joining the Church. I get confirmed at the Easter Vigil.

As a Catholic, I say welcome!
As for Francis, sure I think he is a Commie, but Pope's come and go.

I loved John Paul II. Ronald Reagan was President, Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister ... and communism was seen as the evil it is.
Unfortunately, as long as we have envy and greed, and one man wants to meddle in the affairs of another, the concept is not truly defeated.

A lot of you guys should check out Missouri Synod Lutheran. You might like it.

https://www.lcms.org/

The ELCA is the 'social justice' Lutheran branch - we disavow them.

----------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm actually joining the Church. I get confirmed at the Easter Vigil.

As a Catholic, I say welcome!
As for Francis, sure I think he is a Commie, but Pope's come and go.

I loved John Paul II. Ronald Reagan was President, Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister ... and communism was seen as the evil it is.
Unfortunately, as long as we have envy and greed, and one man wants to meddle in the affairs of another, the concept is not truly defeated.

Bolded for emphasis. In the religious context I'll also add that a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ's doctrine motivates many to the Left. For example, Christ was all about charity and caring for the poor, but it is to be done voluntarily. Without voluntary participation, there is no spiritual growth nor character refinement. Neither the donor nor the recipient truly benefit. To the contrary, lost are individual liberty, equality and self determination. At the core of every principle taught by Christ is individual agency and personal responsibility. There is a growing movement which does not recognize this aspect that perverts the teachings of Christ to justify Socialism/Communism etc. I believe this Pope is not only one of them, but is a leader of them. No offense to Catholics intended. There are plenty of these socialist religionists in my church too.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
To all those who left:
Where did you go?
Another religion, or simply not practicing any religion?

I started going to evangelical churches that taught salvation is by grace as a free gift, not something anyone can earn by being good or doing good.

I think it is very easy to get caught up in religion and lose sight of what is truly important, and that is our personal relationship with God. The church is made up of people and we are all sinners and hypocrites....Every last one of us. Thankfully Jesus Christ paid the debt for those sins and we need only believe in Him and repent of our sins. I find it truly sad that so many allow other people's actions to influence their relationship with God. The older I get the more I like to keep "Church" simple. I get together with like minded Christians who love God's Word and study it together. We take communion once a week to remember the sacrifice that Christ made for us, and we sing songs of worship to God. Lastly, we pray to God. Beyond that we are just trying to live our lives according to God's Word as best as we can, which can be really hard at times.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
We had a thread like this recently. I will never be anything but Catholic, that's how I was raised: parochial school, altar boy, pre-nuptial classes prior to our Catholic wedding, and Parish Council member. There is a nun and there were two Jesuit priests in the extended family.

The pedophile priest scandal hit me hard, and it went on and on. I was taught that the Pope is infallible when making decisions on matters of the Church. Covering up the priest scandal, allowing the transfer of pedophile priests from parish to parish for years disclosed that they are all too fallible.

This Pope's socialist pronouncements and activities just fortified our decision to be comfortable as non-practicing Catholics.

TMAT I'm right there with you. I couldn't have been raised more Catholic. Our local priests were always the "best" of us and truly selfless, my grandparents were practical Catholics that got so much out of the church. But the cracks appeared and grew into a Chasm and I made a conscious decision to not only leave, but after baptism not raise my children as Catholic. Hard decision as we swore to raise our kids in the church...

911Boss - god's chosen emissary or not, the Pope is just a man. Anything else is idolization. Honestly not sure where this leads from here - organized religion is not in my future but my values and beliefs are Christian.

quote:

Originally posted by Floyd D. Barber:

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
I'm not catholic, but here's my take on it:

"The Pope" does NOT equal "The Church."

The Pope is a person, usually (in view of my observations) one with MANY political concerns/agendas.

The Church is the local body of believers that you join in worship.

Two different things.

To the die hard believers, he is the church. Have you ever seen the reception he gets in third world countries?

Yes; they WORSHIP him.

This is part of the problem. NO man should be worshipped. No ideology, institution, or other earthly creation should be worshipped.

I see this in the protestant churches, as well, where personalities and agendas take precedence over preaching and living the Gospel. As long as humans are involved, there will be problems. The best churches are ones that minimize the human influence and concentrate on what Jesus would really want us to do. . .

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Yes; they WORSHIP him.

This is a common misconception.

Catholics do not worship the Pope, nor do we worship Mary (as some believe we do).

I'm sure that there are some within the faith who do, but they would be wrong to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
... nor do we worship Mary (as some believe we do). ...

This is something that interests me. Do catholics pray to Mary for favor with the Messiah?