Damn keep that information coming. I ordered the sleep stuff mentioned in this thread but I am really curious from those that lift regularly at the gym, as do I. If this stuff works on jointa, muscle, I’m ordering some tomorrow. Thanks for the report.

I take about half that 25mg amount and I prefer the tincture. I use the included eyedropper and take 0.75ML under my tongue in the am with first cup of coffee and then 0.5ML around 6 pm.

DMF is a fantastic source for the relevant legal statutes and other technicalities with respect to Cannabis laws, Firearms laws, and other legal issues, and he's a great resource for those things, one I've benefitted from and appreciated several times over the years.

As for the rest regarding Cannabis and it's derivatives and laws and practices, his negative bias / "Fed" bias is clear and long standing, as is his tired old push for Marinol Rx.



And as he correctly pointed out, CBD is indeed still just as Federally illegal as THC, if you care about that sort of thing. Many many millions of Americans in most US States very clearly don't, and the trend is very, very clearly shifting toward legalization, worldwide, and it's simply a matter of time and testicular fortitude from the garbage in Congress and out of touch certifiabke-loons like Jeff Sessions and the Liquor and Tobacco lobbies.

And look... Hemp != CBD != THC. No one is legally shipping real CBD products across state lines to states where it's still illegal.

And I don't know of anyone, personally, who sees a benefit from Hemp extracts. They might exist, but it's certainly not an analogue I' CBD in any meaningful way.

I do know a dozen or so people who, anecdotally, benefit from CBD extracts, all of whom get zero "high" from it. And those in the know, those on the bleeding edge of related research and product development, claim that the most effective CBD products have between 1-2% THC in them, which I think is analogous to Tylenol having some caffeine in it.

Also, as RAIMUS pointed out, anyone who knows a fucking thing (first hand) about Cannabis knows that there are indeed a wide range of effects from strain to strain. And anyone who tells you differently categorically doesn't know WTF they're taking about. If I were so inclined I could likely line up thousands upon thousands of testimonials to the affirmative, and were it legal everywhere we could demonstrate it with child like ease.

Sativas tend to feel more like Stimulants, and Indicas tend to feel more like Depressants, emphasis on "tend to". And between the multitude of Hybrids, the effects vary greatly from person to person and strain to strain, much like Tequila is a different drunk from Bourbon which feels different somehow from a Vodka drink in subtle to more obvious ways.

And sure, dosing isn't as exact as weighing out micrograms of aspirin created in a laboratory, but neither is shaking out some dried and ground pepper from your spice cabinet... one batch of Jalapenos can vary greatly from the next, yet still be a Jalapeno. It isn't rocket surgery either. Whether regular flower (buds/weed) or extracts, start with a little, wait 30-60min, and have some more if you're not feeling it, repeat...

Caveat Emptor and all that.

Standard Disclaimer about 4473s and weed...

This one time (literally one single time), at band camp (a friend's house), I was offered and tried some pure CBD extract from a super nerd organic grower dude. It was from a custom strain where the natural strength of CBD was north of 14% and the THC concentration was just under 2%, ideal for the CBD market, and the opposite of how the proportions usually are in "regular" Cannabis (CBD has been there all along, just in smaller amounts and ignored for ages).

So this CBD concentrate was in "shatter" form (14% CBD extracted to a 90+% concentration of it (almost all of the plant material removed), like thin peanut brittle in color and texture, and would retail for about $100/gram at the time. I took a small bit, maybe 1/5th the volume of a standard BB for airguns, and smoked it on a "dab rig" (bong like doohickey, no water in it), inhaled it all at once, exhaled shortly afterwards, and what I felt was the most un-weed like thing, a subtle sort of warming sensation washed over me from head to toe, like a reverse chill, and the resulting feelings were most analogous to a very mild Rx muscle relaxant, which lasted an hour or so, a bit like one single drink might relax someone a little. And that was with some of the purest, most concentrated form, that CBD comes in. This I did while otherwise stone cold sober, inside a house, just sitting around and stuff.

I've no need nor interest in CBD stuff, myself, and it's success and efficacy are still a ways out from being truly understood and backed with rigorous research by real scientists, but there's a mountain of anecdotal evidence by an ever growing group of proponents. And even if it is ultimately determined to be largely inert and mostly a placebo, what's certain is that the who like it aren't doing it for "the high". It's a placebo effect at the worst, I'd wager, because most don't have access to the pure and strong sort I tried and they certainly don't smoke it very often, so even the "mild muscle relaxant" feeling I could actually feel wouldn't show up for most people, it would be even more subtle for sure.

And, fwiw, I've zero interest in Rx pain killers or any similar thing. I've only ever taken such drugs by Rx for surgery and the like, and don't even care for how it feels, so my comments about muscle relaxants ought not be interpreted as that sort of affinity. I like Bourbon and a few other spirits but rarely drink much these days, and I definitely think Cannabis should be legal and treated like Alcohol or Tobacco, but as of now - it isn't, yet.

YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Damn keep that information coming. I ordered the sleep stuff mentioned in this thread but I am really curious from those that lift regularly at the gym, as do I. If this stuff works on jointa, muscle, I’m ordering some tomorrow. Thanks for the report.

Well so far it's not a miracle cure, but it seems to work pretty good in the muscle/tendon/joint regards. I put it at just a bit better than Ibuprofen used to work for me, however being it's a first time use, it may not be as effective long term, just like Ibuprofen/NSAIDs worked better when I first started taking them vs after years and years of taking it.

I had Carpal Tunnel surgery on my right wrist exactly six months ago, just after I found out I was allergic to NSAID's. Made for a shitty recovery (could only take Tylenol) and too much time out of the gym since I couldn't put pressure on my palm/wrist where they sliced me open and cut stuff out. That's what got me interested in CBD oil. It doesn't have to be a miracle cure, as long as it's better than Tylenol which sucks..

I'm hoping the splitting headache is simply a coincidence, or just a short term by product. Or maybe I'm just taking too much. As usual, I just jump in with both feet and take twice as much as recommended, simply because I want to know immediately if somethings is going to at least kinda work, instead of stretching it out over too much time upping my dose. Now I'm hoping that if I dial back the dosage, the apparent muscle pain relief continues, but any negative side affects go away. I do not think it's a placebo for me, because I am pretty skeptical and tuned to my aches and pains from 20 years of weightlifting workouts.

So the difference level I feel in pain, is about how the CBD "appears" to makes me react subconsciously about it. Last week after a heavy workout, I was always "consciously" aware that something was hurting/aching. For example, as in, "goddamn my wrist hurts" and I would rub/massage it constantly. This week, I do not think or am particularly aware about it, unless I do something that invokes more pain, like actually twisting my sore wrist at some particular angle. It's a major difference. Don't know whether it's the psychoactive ingredients (even if tiny) effecting my conscious awareness at the brain level, or something in the oil is affecting the local pain receptors at the damaged body parts. Don't really care either since I'm just looking for relief. Just like I don't care how Ibuprofen works as long as it works (which unfortunately I can't take anymore).

As I mentioned before, the hemp stuff on Amazon worked for me. But the real deal CBD is the most effective for pain relief.

I only used the amazon stuff as a sleep aid.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:
https://www.dea.gov/divisions/hq/2015/hq122315.shtml

Like it or not, other than for FDA & DEA approved clinical research, CBD is still illegal.

Are you saying the cbd oil which is extracted from hemp is illegal? It seems the hemp extract is a different product than oils extracted from cannibis, even though the two plants are somehow related in a botanical sense.

I appreciate this discussion, because there is a lot of confusion out there. For me at least, there should be a clear answer as to whether or not the hemp cbd is or is not legal at the Federal level.

If you are saying the cannibis cbd oil is illegal at the Federal level even though it may be legal in a certain State, that would make sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
I do know a dozen or so people who, anecdotally, benefit . . .

. . . testimonials . . .

. . . tend to feel more like . . .

. . . tend to feel more like . . .

. . . emphasis on "tend to".

Anecdotes, testimonials, and a bunch of "tend to(s)," are not "peer reviewed scientific studies from legitimate sources."

quote:

. . . were it legal everywhere we could demonstrate it . . .

Legalizing marijuana for medical use, before doing the necessary peer reviewed scientific studies to prove it's safety and efficacy for medical use, is ridiculous. What you're suggesting should be done is the medical equivalent of Nancy Pelosi's claim about legislation, that "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it." You're saying, "we have to let everyone use this as medicine, to see if it's safe and effective as medicine." The problem is what if it's not safe and/or effective? Legitimate scientific study must be done first.

quote:

And sure, dosing isn't as exact as weighing out micrograms of aspirin created in a laboratory, but neither is shaking out some dried and ground pepper from your spice cabinet... one batch of Jalapenos can vary greatly from the next, yet still be a Jalapeno.

Medicine isn't food, it's not taken to taste, it's taken for a specific medical purpose. Accurate dosing control is essential to both efficacy and safety in medicine.

quote:

It isn't rocket surgery either. Whether regular flower (buds/weed) or extracts, start with a little, wait 30-60min, and have some more if you're not feeling it, repeat...

Is that how you also suggest people handle their cholesterol meds, BP meds, insulin for diabetes, etc?

Before advocating that marijuana should be used as medicine it should be tested, and proven safe and effective, just like other legitimate medicines.

Until then it's just "alternative medicine" which is a fancy of way of saying "snake oil," because "alternative medicine" that actually is safe and effective for treating medical conditions is simply called "medicine." No "alternative" needed.

Boy, DMF you sure do hate pot. did it beat you up in middle school or something? You're going to have a hell of a time showing "peer reviewed scientific studies from legitimate sources." as our government has decided ignorance is the best way to handle any sort of information on the topic. Sure people can be pretty free with the dosing, but if they've found something that provides them pain relief I don't see the problem. how about we leave people to their own devices?

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Boy, DMF you sure do hate pot. did it beat you up in middle school or something? You're going to have a hell of a time showing "peer reviewed scientific studies from legitimate sources." as our government has decided ignorance is the best way to handle any sort of information on the topic. Sure people can be pretty free with the dosing, but if they've found something that provides them pain relief I don't see the problem. how about we leave people to their own devices?

FB, that is way too much freedom for us to have.

It's a gateway drug, think of the children!
This stuff is way more dangerous than that safe benign OxyCotin your doctor can prescribe for you. Which has been tested out the ass and is sold in properly metered dosages, so it's got to be good for you. You trust big pharma don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie1:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publ...uana/letter-director

I fail to see how the same government that completely bans a plant, can be an authority on it.

Not CBD oil but this works wonders for me. I have a pinched nerve in my right shoulder/ neck area and I cannot raise my hand above my shoulder. I rub this stuff in and it really helps with the pain.

https://rtpr.com/hemp-oil-plus

Pot once touched him, down there.

DMF is absolutely correct in his comments towards marijuana that is being used as "medicine". The practice of medicine relies on scientific analysis of fact and strict study protocols to ensure that NOBODIES biases create a false finding of fact. His comments regarding marinol reflect this as it is the only cannabis analog to be studied and approved for medical use in the United States (at this time). None of the CBD or other products mentioned here have been studied, partially because of restrictions by the DEA. Hopefully this will change soon and rigid scientific studies can be done to determine the positive and negative aspects of cannabis when used as a medication.

I don't see any of his comments as being directed to the recreational use marijuana.

On a historical basis, non-scientific access to patent medication drugs gave us Heroin and Cocaine, which caused their own issues until legal access to them was restricted. I'm not saying this is the case with cannabis, but the process is the same.

Whatever you think of DMF his comments are 100% right on as they apply to the studies and approval process for medicine to be available in the United States. There is a reason that we haven't experienced significant illness and loss of life from access to medications whose effects we don't know.

As a side not, I think cannabis should be legalized and controlled for quality and strength, pesticides etc. It's use is too widespread and too many people are having to deal with the aftermath of having an arrest or conviction for possession of it.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Boy, DMF you sure do hate pot. did it beat you up in middle school or something? You're going to have a hell of a time showing "peer reviewed scientific studies from legitimate sources." as our government has decided ignorance is the best way to handle any sort of information on the topic. Sure people can be pretty free with the dosing, but if they've found something that provides them pain relief I don't see the problem. how about we leave people to their own devices?

You do realize the only reason it's not studied is that it is illegal to do so. The only way to study it is to change its schedule. So it will never be studied until that is done. Until it is reclassified people are left to do their own experimenting and find whatever products and dosing works for them, or if it even provides ant relief at all.

The way I see it Humans relied on herbs and plants for medicine long before the FDA.

How many prescription medicines have went through the rigorous tests and studies to be deemed Government safe, only later, after millions of people have consumed it, it is learned it does more harm than good.

I wish the government would allow humans to grow and use any plant that nature provides for their own use.

Yeah some people might get sick from some plants,some might die. But humans should be allowed enough freedom to make that choice.

Modern pharmaceuticals have only existed for less than 200 years. Humans survived thousands of years without them,relying mainly on plants.

I am not against pharmaceutical drugs they have their place. So do plants and herbs.

What right does a government have to dictate this to free people?

I do realize that and would advocate that the DEA does reclassify it so that it can be studied and we can have factual information to make decisions on.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
You do realize the only reason it's not studied is that it is illegal to do so. The only way to study it is to change its schedule. So it will never be studied until that is done. Until it is reclassified people are left to do their own experimenting and find whatever products and dosing works for them, or if it even provides ant relief at all.

"Modern pharmaceuticals have only existed for less than 200 years. Humans survived thousands of years without them,relying mainly on plants."

Maybe that's why the life expectancy in the early 1800's was 37 years instead of our current 78.

We're discussing CBD oil here, not pot. And, according to the DEA, CBD is federally legal.

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj...inoids_05222018.html