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Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
My understanding is there is some redundancy built into the system, ...

The electrical grid/distribution? Yes, there is. That's why, during storms, you'll sometimes see the lights go out briefly, or dim, then return. But it has limits.

That's actually not correct. There's generally no actual redundancy built into the distribution system of the electrical grid.

I suppose a buddy of mine, an engineer, who actually worked for what is now DTE didn't know what he was talking about, then.

^^^Maybe you misunderstood him...

The context of my entire post, and the function of Reclosers on the distribution system is entirely accurate!

Seems a bit odd that there's no sign of any video security being used at these places.
Somebody could easily attack my home or small business but the police would have some images of them or their vehicle to at least point them in the right direction.

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Many of the large items within a substation are super expensive and cities don’t have backups just laying around. Deplete the spares and it’s game on.

Spares means older units that were removed from service since they couldn't handle the need for increased loads. All of the big ticket items are all pretty much custom made and imported from China and Europe and they take many months to make.

I work for a power company that provides service for multiple western states. We have multiple substations "secured" with nothing more than a chain link fence. Anytime something like this happens just like the Medford attack the powers that be go nuts. Money is going to be spent on cameras and barriers. It will accomplish little. As every cops knows the cameras will reveal the suspect was dudes in a black hoodies. As far as barriers we are likely to use cheap barriers like Hesco Barriers used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the newest attacks all we have been told is suspects rammed the chain link fence and entered the substation. Then fired at the equipment. They left 25+ casings on the ground. FBI hasn't said what caliber was used. I'm not convinced it was Nazis. Could have easily been the drunken Duke boys. I guess if it was just "some good ole boys" then the General Lee will play into the racist Nazi narrative.

This sounds more like Antifa, than any right wing group.

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custom made and imported from China

^ Precisely this, if one needs a particular reason to be concerned...

nhracecraft you are wrong about there being no redundancy in the power distribution system. The interconnection of the grid is the redundancy. There are many ways to feed power into most areas. Some power lines are single feed especially in rural areas and are out until repaired.

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Originally posted by ChuckFinley:

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custom made and imported from China

^ Precisely this, if one needs a particular reason to be concerned...

We have to fly in Chinese engineers when we have trouble with this equipment and to keep it running.

I lived not far from the Metcalf station in San Jose back when that happened and I can tell you anybody and I really do mean anybody could have shot that place up from point blank to a few hundred yards easily. Most of these subs stations are protected by nothing more than a chain link fence with barb wire on top

What I’m really surprised by is there have not been more attacks agains major fiber cable lines. A few years ago construction workers cut a major fiber line up in Sacramento and internet went down all over northern ca. we literally could do nothing at our office and they sent us home. Funny the transit system was down as well as a result. Took a $100 cab ride home. Seems a coordinated attack against known fiber /internet lines could bring the country to its knees in minutes with no internet to run Everything.

Post 9/11 the power grid along with other critical infrastructure was assesses as a priority terrorism target. I am not surprised that the idea has dawned on someone no matter the motivation. I would also be looking at disgruntled employees as well as people pissed about their power bills, enviroterrorists mad about carbon based power generation, or just some bored loonies.

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Seems a coordinated attack against known fiber /internet lines could bring the country to its knees in minutes with no internet to run Everything.

^^^^^^^^^^
That has happened several times at my office. Some rural areas in my state have the robustness of dial up. Is there no redundancy built into the system? I know from power company employees that outages can sometimes be rerouted.
In contrast my landlines seldom were down even during major storms.

Gotta wonder what the sales of home generator sales are looking like in the affected area.

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Originally posted by c1steve:
This sounds more like Antifa, than any right wing group.

Yep. “By any means necessary” is not a “right wing” catchphrase.

"handtools, arson, firearms, and metal chains"

Reporter on the radio today only mentioned guns. You must be mistaken.

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Originally posted by sig operator:
nhracecraft you are wrong about there being no redundancy in the power distribution system. The interconnection of the grid is the redundancy. There are many ways to feed power into most areas. Some power lines are single feed especially in rural areas and are out until repaired.

First, I said 'generally' no redundancy, and second, the main point of my response, was that 'dimming and flickering of lights, followed by the power seemingly coming back on again', was the result of reclosers functioning to remove short circuit/damaged areas without 'losing' the entire grid area.

Redundant implies separate, duplicate capacity, offline equipment (often complete systems), which can be brought 'online' to replace the capacity of equipment, that has either failed, or needs to be serviced. That's NOT actually what we have.

Further, the interconnection of the grid is NOT necessarily redundancy, if that equipment is ALREADY in service feeding power to other areas. There is limited 'excess capacity' if any, which is why 'rolling blackouts' occur when there is high demand. The interconnection of the grid, in terms of distribution, is more akin to the interstate highway system, where there arm multiple routes to and around a city, but only so much capacity for traffic. And while certain large/critical substations 'may' have a back-up (stand-by?) transformer that can be brought on-line for the purpose of PM/servicing, it's not there in case of sabotage/terrorist attack, nor is it 'really' there just in case the other one fails, as they have a predictable (and long) service life.

The power is STILL out for many in NC...

It doesn't really matter if redundancy is built into the power grid. The status of the power grid is what they say it is. No one in the MSM will say otherwise. You'll have a boat load of experts going along with it. We already found that out with their last manufactured crisis. I can't think of a single crisis that would usher in a state of emergency/Great Reset faster than a long term power outage. It could be the perfect False Flag Operation. I pray it never happens.

Folks may want to start paying more attention to the words of this piece of garbage.
He's warning his intended audience.


KLAUS SCHWAB: CYBERATTACK WORSE THAN COVID-19 CRISIS - POWER GRID DOWN, BANKING OFFLINE

https://www.bitchute.com/video/dOlLVGDEoxLR/

I always have cash available should the power stay off for a time. The few businesses open afer a major hurricane take only cash. That sucks when you need gas or want something to drink.

Like any industry/business words have meanings in the Electical Utility business. The BES ( Bulk Electric System) is generally recognized as 115kv voltage and higher. This is often referred to as the “Grid”. Lower voltages are referred to as Distribution or maybe Sub-Grid. The BES is most definitely designed with reliability and resiliency in mind, with substation bus configuration and number of transmission lines. The distribution transmission systems are almost all radial designs and therefore can have no redundancy. This is where reclosers as previously mentioned are used to attempt to isolate faults and restore power to the rest of the line.

Unfortunately the only way to secure this equipment would be to place it inside a building. Even if a substation was on a hilltop with high concrete walls, it would be vulnerable to drones.

There is a form OE-417 that is used to document a short list of disturbances that could occur on the BES. Unfortunately it can be difficult to truly describe what actually happened. In my experience most of the times actions of sabotage occurred, it was meth heads cutting out copper wires to sell as scrap. They had no idea what kind of damage they were doing. The same with most of the gunshot damage as well (when done to insulators and other parts the go boom and arcy/sparky). I haven’t seen a report of what was actually damaged in this case.

I can say in the past month I have seen gunshot damage done to BES equipment that most definitely was targeted in an attempt to destroy the equipment. The shooter either was an insider or was pointed at the part of the equipment to shoot.

Nice First Post! You've been holding out on us...

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Originally posted by riverhouse:
I can say in the past month I have seen gunshot damage done to BES equipment that most definitely was targeted in an attempt to destroy the equipment. The shooter either was an insider or was pointed at the part of the equipment to shoot.

That is quite interesting.