Alrighty. I had a pleasant shock on tax day and I think I'm gonna buy a track bike.

I found a 2007 GSX-R600 track bike at a good price but instead of the usual "salvage" title you often find on track bikes this thing has a Certificate of destruction from the state of Florida. Certificate of destruction has a very ominous tone to it. I suppose it means the bike was crashed and found to be a total loss? Right?

My concern is that maybe a bike that sustained a hit hard enough to classify it a total loss might have hidden structural damage. Is this a valid concern? As a track bike it would get ridden hard and I want a bike that will survive a mild crash or two. Or at the minimum a bike with decent survivability should I mess up on a track day.

On the other hand my recent experience trying to locate fairings for my R1 has shown me that some cheap plastic parts can cost WAAAAAAAAAAY more than you would think. Trying to replace plastics on my R1 would cost more than the bike. But it's a old bike.

Would it be better to hold out for a salvage title bike?

Should keep looking for a good deal and build my own track bike?

Lastly, for starting out on the track is the GSX-R600 a good entry level bike that will serve me well for a few years? I don't think the R1 or my SV650 is a good choice in their current condition. I don't want to modify my SV or risk crashing either bike. The SV's suspension is horrific and the poor R1 has seen enough abuse already, and I've grown fond of it. I want something I can push it on and not feel horrible if it gets wrecked. I think a GSX-R600 might check all those boxes.

Thanks!!

Certificate of destruction means it's supposed to be destructed and not made usable. That's my understanding of the term based on my experience.

We had an expensive unit that arrived damaged at the customer prior to installation. Sent it back to the manufacturer, could not be repaired. We salvaged a couple of critical and re-usable components then had the manufacturer dispose of it such that none of it was useable. We didn't want the unit or parts of it resurrecting elsewhere. It's a medical device regulated by the FDA.

To close the loop, the manufacturer had to send us a certificate of destruction to be filed in the Device History Record.

Something sounds fishy about the Certificate of Destruction and they're willing to sell you the bike.

My understanding as well is that a Certificate of Destruction means that the vehicle is NEVER to be returned to road-worthy status.

The info I was reading basically say

Clear Title > Salvaged/Rebuilt Title > Certificate of Destruction.

Seems really fishy that they're trying to sell it unless you can get more clear guidance...they're basically selling something that can't be ridden. And since you're saying it's a "good price", it sounds like they're selling it as if it's road worthy...

Guys. Track bike. It'll never be road worthy. At least not legally. Think race car/closed circuit course. Most race tracks require you remove your headlights taillights and most of the street legal stuff anyway.

Find another R600 with a clean title and pick up the other one for parts. Tell the seller to drop the price because it can only used as a parts bike and see what happens.

Jim

We to DMV Florida. Here's a question, seems the insurance company does this. Does title transfer to them?

"When a vehicle has been wrecked or damaged so badly it's considered a salvage. Often it's then taken to a salvage yard for destruction.
Before getting rid of your salvage vehicle, however, you must apply for a salvage certificate of title. If you're handling the damaged vehicle through an insurance company, usually the insurance company will take care of this for you. If you're not affiliated with an insurance company, please call DMV Customer Service at (850) 617-2000 for instructions on obtaining a salvage title. You can also download the Application for Salvage Title/Certificate of Destruction (Form HSMV 82363).
To obtain a salvage title, bring the following to your tax collector's office:
Completed Application for Salvage Title/Certificate of Destruction (Form HSMV 82363).
One of the following: the vehicle's original Florida certificate of title, the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO), or an out-of-state title.
Applicable fees (contact your local office for fee schedule, as it may vary by county).
When Rebuilding is a Possibility
Sometimes a car has suffered extensive damage, but it hasn't been damaged enough to be legally declared salvage. In that case, a Salvage Rebuildable title may be issued.
The tricky part begins when you wish to purchase a vehicle that has been rebuilt from salvaged parts. This industry has been damaged by too many cases of fraud and dishonesty, so protecting yourself is very important.
A rebuilt vehicle should always have a notice on the title stating that it is rebuilt. The owner will also receive a decal that must be placed on the car, signifying its rebuilt status.
Buyer Beware

It's a felony to knowingly misrepresent a rebuilt vehicle to a prospective buyer. But unfortunately, it still happens. You can protect yourself as a buyer by requesting a title search on the vehicle.
For a reasonable fee, you can order a vehicle history report. It can tell you where the car was previously registered, whether the vehicle was salvaged, recalled or damaged by flood, and also if the odometer reading is correct."
http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/salvaged-vehicles.php

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Certificate of destruction means it's supposed to be destructed and not made usable. That's my understanding of the term based on my experience.

THIS. It is damaged beyond the means that it can ever be fixed so that it can ever safely (structurally) be ridden again. Let's just say that if Florida brands a bike title that way, the thing probably got run over my a tractor trailer or something of that magnitude. Steer clear. Salvage rebuildable it could have some fixable frame damage, but can be made safe and roadworthy again but insurance felt it would cost more than it's worth, but you'd have to get it inspected by DOT in FL when finished along with pictures and reciepts of the work and before and after, and then the title is branded salvage rebuilt. A FL salvage theft title follows the same rules as rebuildable but once inspected you get a clean title back (no frame damage, just parts missing).

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Guys. Track bike. It'll never be road worthy. At least not legally. Think race car/closed circuit course. Most race tracks require you remove your headlights taillights and most of the street legal stuff anyway.

IT WILL NEVER BE MADE SAFE TO RIDE ANYWHERE, because if it has a certificate of destruction, it has extensive frame damage that can NEVER be fixed. Like mangled like a tin can.

Stickman, as a guy who survived two bad crashes on motorcycles, I gotta ask...

... Do you really want to risk your life and limb, the lives and limbs of other racers, and the lives and limbs of the viewing public on the off chance there is nothing wrong with a racing motorcycle with a Certificate of Destruction?

Is a saving at most a couple of grand really worth the risk?

With my record of taking stupid risks for giggles and grins and being bitten by Dame Chance, my friends would think I'd do something like this, but I'm telling you no way. No friggin' way.

Seriously, keep looking.

Motorcycling, especially at what even I deem insane speeds, is dangerous enough.

Buy it for a few non-critical parts, maybe.

Buy it to ride... not chance in Hell.

ETA: There is a rolling racer chassis locally fr $750. No motor. Not street legal, but a clean title. On craigslist.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sig2340,

maybe it's a badass bike, has some mad max shit going on, spikes, guns, rocket launchers, a cool stick with a mans head on the top, made to destroy all comers, mean, loud, used mostly to stop people and take their gas, ergo certificate of destruction...

Not a motorcycle expert but there's plenty of input above from motorcycle folks.

I'll just add another concern - in addition to the concern about the safety/functionality of the restoration, think also about eventual resale value.

Gotta think there's some reasonable alternative out there with your name on it.

Florida Statute 713.78(11)

"...when such vehicle or vessel is to be sold for purposes of being dismantled, destroyed, or changed in such manner that it is not the motor vehicle or vessel described in the certificate of title, shall report the vehicle to the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System and apply to the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles for a certificate of destruction. A certificate of destruction, which authorizes the dismantling or destruction of the vehicle or vessel described therein, shall be reassignable a maximum of two times before dismantling or destruction of the vehicle shall be required, and shall accompany the vehicle or vessel for which it is issued, when such vehicle or vessel is sold for such purposes, in lieu of a certificate of title. The application for a certificate of destruction must include proof of reporting to the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System and an affidavit from the applicant that it has complied with all applicable requirements of this section and, if the vehicle or vessel is not registered in this state or any other state, by a statement from a law enforcement officer that the vehicle or vessel is not reported stolen, and shall be accompanied by such documentation as may be required by the department."

In other words, junk---good for parts only.

It obviously varies state to state.

I'd find out exactly why FL has given it a certificate of destruction.

But as a parts bike, take advantage of it, unless it's a frame that is duct taped in 3 or more places.

I can't tell you squat about the title issue. But I have road raced motorcycles for a very very long time. If you want to know the bike is straight and healthy take it to a motorcycle specialist that does that. I use GMD Computrack. They have a very accurate measuring system that can determine if the frame is straight. I use the one in Boston but there are franchises so there might be one close enough to you that this is possible. Otherwise you can go to any good race oriented shop and they will be able to look at it and tell if there are any major issues. Its incredibly hard to hurt the japanese 600's seriously without it being visible. With all that said I don't think 600's are the best bike to start with for most people. It depends a little on what tracks you intend to run. You really want way less horsepower to learn the basics of cornering without the risk of power induced issues. At the track I go to most often the best starter bike is an SV650. They can be modified easily to be completely competent beyond the skills of any beginner or even intermediate(can describe that in another post or email if you want). Race versions are readily available for cheap and there is very little to break. I've raced SV's since the first one came out so I know a whole bunch and I current have 3 racing ones.
All real race bikes crash pretty well normally. The stock parts are always replaced with race parts that do well crashing (take a look at http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com which is a company run by a racing friend of mine to see examples) and that have replaceable sub parts.
Race bodywork is not like stock bodywork and is almost always repairable after crashing.
Its always cheaper to buy a built race bike than build one yourself but its not as much fun.
The 'track' bike market is a bit thin, I'd be looking at race bulletin boards (WERA in your area) and just buy a race bike if converting your 650 is not a possibility. Hope that helps. more detail as you want.

If it was to be destroyed, think about the liability later should there be any accidents or problems. I don't think it is worth it, and I believe that someone is trying to sell it should be reported to the authorities.

quote:

Originally posted by jehzsa:

In other words, junk---good for parts only.

Then why does it say you can reassign it two times?

hrcjon, I was hoping you would see this thread. I hear you on the SV650 being a damn good track bike to start out. My reasoning for switching from a bike I currently own and am familiar with to the GSX is that I am becoming more of a inline four fan. Would it be difficult to adjust to the top end power of a 600-1000 GSXR after racing a SV for a while? Especially managing the power on a track and in corners?

My main goal in track days would be to get better cornering skills and learning exactly how far I can push my bike in the corners.

I don't think a SV would be difficult to pick up for track days but I would either have to modify the suspension or find one already sorted out for track days (which is the cheaper and easier route to go at first).

I definitely appreciate the input. No need to shoot me a email, just post it here. I doubt I am the only one interested in track days and the merits of a 90° twin verses a 600cc inline four on the track.

I (and lots of others) race many different classes and bikes. I often got off an SV and on a GSXR and don't find any issues dealing with that transition. Somewhere deep in your brain after enough laps is a switch that knows what bike you are riding. So the difference in bikes doesn't bother me and won't bother you after some learning about the extra power. The big issue in moving to big bikes is managing the side of the tire on acceleration leaned over. Nobody has any trouble accelerating in a straight line upright. The benefit of the twins is they are way more tolerant of sloppy rpm control. Have you ridden a modern 600? Its an exercise in power-band management and often requires that you sneak in a shift where it would be better if you didn't have to while learning. And that's a real distraction sometimes. In addition the bigger bikes eat tires. At the top level even of club racing its a new rear on a big bike everytime you really want to go fast. I don't have any issue if you want to learn on a 600 its just that your learning curve will be slower than something smaller. There's nothing special about SV's in that regard lots of people learned on Ex-500's and now the 300's and motards. It will always be cheaper to buy a race prepped bike than do it yourself. But like building an AR you don't then get to pick the parts you want. A workable track day SV doesn't take very much. You can run it naked, get a set of clipons, rearsets, some sliders, some professional work on the front end, spring changes and then tires. If your like most beginners I've taught you can live with the stock shock for awhile, but soon you will want a shock and after that you can pretty much live for a long time of learning.

stickman428 I thought of one thing after I wrote the above. At the track I go most of the time suspersport SV's (which allows internal suspension changes but still the tiny 41mm stock tubes, a shock but requires stock motors) with the best riders do 1:15 laps. Supersport 600's do 1:11 laps. That's more than twice the horsepower, modern suspensions, bigger and better tires in 600 sizes and lots of other advantages like more modern chassis designs. That's roughly a 5% difference. And a good 600 race bike will cost at least 5 times what the sv cost. If your goal is to go race seriously you have to get to the 600 inline 4's since that's the go to classes. If your goals are learning and fun then the other choices have much to offer.