Not in a panic but curious.
Lived in CT and they had a system that required point of sale to get a number related to the purchaser, then send a state form to a registry. That allowed them to see a person and what he had.

AZ only has a point of purchase 4473, which is kept on premise. No state involvement that I know of.

Had worked in a gun shop. If ATF was tracking a particular firearm, they would go from manufacturer, to distributor, to shop. The shop had to physically look up who it was sold to.

How would "they" enforce any gun tax regulations?

self disclosure, credit card records, gun stores like cabelas, bass-pro, Walmart, etc (big box)

It’s virtually impossible.

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Had worked in a gun shop. If ATF was tracking a particular firearm, they would go from manufacturer, to distributor, to shop. The shop had to physically look up who it was sold to.

That’s exactly how it works when the police find a gun and run a trace....the FFL keeps his records (bound book) on premises until he retires , the business is closed, he sells the business or 20 years.

I’m not worried about any guns I may have bought over my lifetime, as a citizen there is/was no requirement for documentation of where,when,why, how. Or to whom I sold or gifted a gun. Plus I know many FFL that would burn their book or destroy their computers before giving them to the enemy...

Most states can't even even keep track of the cars in their state.

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Plus I know many FFL that would burn their book or destroy their computers before giving them to the enemy...

That's how my FFL is also. It's a large part of why I use him.

Not sure if something like that would pertain to past sales. This might be used for new sales if it came to this.
Lets hope not.
Not sure if you have seen the new 4473 form, they changed the format.
In the past personal information went on the front of the form then the firearms info on the back of the front page.
The new form everyone is now using has all the personal information on the front along withe firearms information.
This, would moving forward make it easy for the ATF to just scan the front of the form and have everything they need or have the store/dealer scan it into data base.

Good luck to the ATF and others tracking the guns in my safe that were acquired through FTF sales.

A sufficiently anti-gun Congress and president could concoct some sort of registration scheme for newly manufactured and sold guns, but it can't do much about the hundreds of millions extant, including ~15 million ARs. For now, it is a gun-grabber's wet dream.

Don't forget the gunsmiths. When I take a non-C&R gun I got 30-40 yrs ago, whose paper trail either never existed or vanished long ago, to a gunsmith, a lot of times, he has to log it in. It'd be a huge pain in the ass to trace those guns, but a newly emboldened ATF might just try it and make examples out of a few people to encourage compliance with new gun laws.

Then there's the commie state of Illinoise

They could use range inspections. Have a couple of cops swing by ranges and check your papers. Mostly, though, I think it would be like enforcing the universal background checks that some states have. It would be a charge added on to something else that you got in trouble for.

I think registration/tracing is definitely on the anti-gun agenda. In VA we now have universal background checks where private transfers are recorded by FFLs, adding to the database of who has what. There have already been efforts to make access to his database easier. What I could never understand is, if the purpose of the 4463 is to identify and deny sales to prohibited persons, why do they ask for the serial number of the gun? Makes no sense.

There are practical, legal and philosophical issues with trying to do this. Add in the intense opposition it would encounter every step of the way, and it's not something I obsess about.

IMO, this is like the possibility of finding a scorpion in your shoe in Antarctica; conceivable, potentially very annoying, but unlikely.

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Originally posted by architect:
I think registration/tracing is definitely on the anti-gun agenda. In VA we now have universal background checks where private transfers are recorded by FFLs, adding to the database of who has what. There have already been efforts to make access to his database easier. What I could never understand is, if the purpose of the 4463 is to identify and deny sales to prohibited persons, why do they ask for the serial number of the gun? Makes no sense.

The firearms information on the 4473 is so that law enforcement can trace back the original owner.
This is if a firearm is found at a crime scene, they can trace it back to the person who made the purchase to find out if thy still own it, was it stolen or was it sold/given away.
If sold or given away they will want to know who it was sold to so they can go visit them next. This is why I always tell people if they are going to do a private sale do a bill of sale. It protects you, the seller more than anything else.

It instills the fear factor in the mind of gun owners. That big brother is coming to check on the guns you own. I guess the commie states have managed to do that fairly well. Here where I live most gun sales take place face to face. It means I go to a gun show and sell a gun I'm tired of to someone. He looks OK to me. No obvious prison tatoo's or whatever. Or the opposite, some slug comes dragging in, with a gun that looks really nice and wants to sell it. If its a nice enough one, I make him an offer. But then I don't buy off brand guns. All I really want is to improve my "collection". Chances are I'll only own it until I find a better example or get tired of it. Then up it goes on the table at the next gun show.

I'd guess it would be a real challenge for some leftist cop or County Attorney to follow that gun. The seller doesn't bother with garbage like a bill of sale. All he wants is to be rid of that gun and to collect his money. When I sell it, its all I want. I've been going to gun shows for about 50 years now. There's no way I can remember what I had for supper yesterday, much less I clunker I sold off 40 years or so ago. The problem is once a cop uses his best threats, I clam up. My best answer is "I don't remember".

If you bought a gun and had to do paperwork, they will always know who bought it first. I had sold a pistol over 25 years ago from a shop that closed many years ago and I filled out the forms for it. Well the pistol was sold afterwards many times and eventually made it's way into a felon's hands and it was used in a robbery. I was contacted by the ATF a few years ago and was asked if I still owned the gun.

What I am driving at is records are always gonna be there and the government will always know,whether we like it or not, our business. Unless you buy the gun from someone who owned it prior and there is no paperwork tracing back it to you, maybe they might not know about it.

An impossible task when the police are over worked, underpaid and going to be defunded.

Add in the astronomical number of recent sales and collapse of tax revenue means you have a toothless threat.

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Originally posted by braillediver:
An impossible task when the police are over worked, underpaid and going to be defunded.

Add in the astronomical number of recent sales and collapse of tax revenue means you have a toothless threat.

Most of slow joes promises are toothless. They are unenforceable, and juries won’t convict in free America.

Laws are enacted with the idea that most citizens are law abiding and will voluntarily comply or face fines/incarceration. Getting caught for most crimes has a statistically low % of probability and there's an element in this country that won't obey any law (including many politicians who enact the laws).

Additionally, gun owners may face confiscation/denial of ownership should they fail to obey. That may be an incentive to some.

obiden expects people to willingly obey the legislation. I'm betting that many of the 70,000,000+ voters/gun owners will not comply. There's not enough police in this country to proactively check gun registrations. Not only that, but the police did not support obiden's election and they're being defunded.

There's not enough federal law enforcement to accomplish alone his anti gun policies. Would federal law enforcement even enforce strict 2A policies given the socialists anti law enforcement agenda? Would the national guard?

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