I bought this house in 1980 (the house was about 20 years old at the time) and a florescent light in the kitchen has always worked until recently. Replacing light bulbs did not work and replacing the starters did not work. I thought I might be able to replace the ballast until I saw what I was up against. No YouTube video covered anything like this, so I put it on hold. I just got a new LED light to replace the old florescent light. I thought it would be simple. Black to black and white to white. Got it all apart to find something I have no idea how to proceed. Getting an electrician could take a couple of months, so look at the photos below to see what this is all about.

First photo below shows the old light. Second photo shows the wires after I removed the light. The light switch was off, so I figured I was good, but sparks flew when I pulled the old fixture off the wires.

Second photo below shows the wires. The green arrows point to two wires that are dead, switch on or off. The two red arrows point to two wires that are hot no matter if the switch is on or off. I have no idea which breaker switch controls this light. Why are there so many wires and why is one set dead all the time and one set hot all the time?

The new light fixture had one white wire, one black wire and a ground and that is what I expected to see when I took the old one off.

Did it have 2 switches ?
Like you could turn it on or off from 2 different locations ?

Cut the breaker to the kitchen and use a flashlight.

quote:

Originally posted by btgoanna:
Did it have 2 switches ?
Like you could turn it on or off from 2 different locations ?

No. Only one switch.

Have you looked at the wiring at the switch ?
Which of these go there .

So the switch that you think controls the light , apparently does not . Going by your description anyway .

Is the blue arrow white really a messenger to another switch?

Would need a better before wiring pic, but this is what looks to be happening.

2 romex whites and 2 light fixture whites wired together. (All nuetral)

2 romex blacks wired together. (Power from panel wired to feed switch)

1 spare romex white and 2 light fixture black wired together. (Power coming from switch to feed light)

All this needs to be verified.

First off, I'd suggest you keep flipping breakers and keep testing until you manage to kill that circuit, then someone here can probably help you untangle the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Would need a better before wiring pic, but this is what looks to be happening.

2 romex whites and 2 light fixture whites wired together. (All nuetral)

2 romex blacks wired together. (Power from panel wired to feed switch)

1 spare romex white and 2 light fixture black wired together. (Power coming from switch to feed light)

All this needs to be verified.

Here is probably the best photo I have or the wiring before I took the light down. I have discovered more problems. See next post of mine.

Since I started this thread, I have found that the switch for the light that has two outlets next to it that the outlets no longer work and there is another outlet out of the photo that the toaster and coffee grinder are plugged into that now no longer works. I thought I was confused when I started this thread, but now I’m baffled. Below is the switch that controlled the light and controlled nothing else.

Can't tell for sure, but I'm guessing you have a dead end switch leg. Does switch have both a white and black hooked to it?

Given last post with kitchen outlets not working, it tells me there's some code violations present, and I can't help in a post.

People as me all the time why did they do it wrong? I don't know is the answer.

Based on the limited information, I'm guessing someone added a light above the sink off of your kitchen appliance circuit.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Can't tell for sure, but I'm guessing you have a dead end switch leg. Does switch have both a white and black hooked to it?

There is one white and one black going to the switch and one black wire from the switch to the two plugins.

The light was installed by the former owners and is wired separately from anything else in the kitchen and is not on the circuit breaker box that is in a cupboard in the kitchen. This is a super old trailer that was inclosed with a stick frame and the trailer part of the wiring is separate from anything else. The florescent light was added to give more light to the kitchen and we miss it.

What codes are in violation? Keep in mind that we’re dealing with the 1960, or more likely, 1957 NEC.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
What codes are in violation? Keep in mind that we’re dealing with the 1960, or more likely, 1957 NEC.

It's been illegal to power lighting or anything else from the small appliance/countertop circuits for decades, if not forever. It's not a safety concern, just wrong to power lighting from small appliance circuit

Here’s how I’m thinking it’s wired.

Either the two wires identified by green or by red are incoming power. If you turn on the breaker, you could quickly determine which ones are power with a meter.

Whichever of those that isn’t incoming power goes down to the switch box. There it should be pigtailed to both the gold (right hand) screws on the outlet, and one of the switch screws. The white wire in that NM-B sheath would connect to the silver screw on the outlet.

The lonely white wire gets connected to the other screw on the switch. It should be marked with black tape both at the switch and the fixture, but it isn’t in your pics. Perhaps this is the code violation to which Skins is referring?

Back at the fixture. The lonely white wire (identified by blue arrow in pic) will be wire nutted to the black wires on the light fixture. All of the other white wires will be wire nutted together, along with the white wires from your fixture. The remaining two black wires will be also be bound.

You can see all this in your before pic. This setup isn’t any different that having power to the fixture and running 14-3 to the switch.

quote:

There is one white and one black going to the switch and one black wire from the switch

It's a dead end switch leg. Going to bed now, shoot me an email and I'll walk you through things.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
What codes are in violation? Keep in mind that we’re dealing with the 1960, or more likely, 1957 NEC.

It's been illegal to power lighting or anything else from the small appliance/countertop circuits for decades, if not forever. It's not a safety concern, just wrong to power lighting from small appliance circuit

Thanks. I guess they don’t want the lights going out when you turn on the microwave.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

There is one white and one black going to the switch and one black wire from the switch

It's a dead end switch leg. Going to bed now, shoot me an email and I'll walk you through things.

You have email. Tho the trailer is old, it is completely closed in by a stick frame house. The wiring for this light and some of the plugins comes from the main circuit breaker in the rear of the house. It isn’t part of the original trailer wiring.