I think this is a no win situation for HD. So much of the branding for HD is wrapped into "American Made" that shifting production overseas 'might' impact buyer perception of what they're getting. Then again, doing nothing and eating the tariffs would also hurt profits.

This is one of the squeezing Jello issues when it comes to trade wars. Nowadays companies have factories all over the world making goods for all over the world. If a government tries to impede that, the companies will just go around that government.

Some parts will be manufactured here, the assembly will go overseas, this happened a year or two back with India,

India is the largest motorcycle market in the world, and unless you build your bikes in India the tariff is massive. So HD had to build an assembly plant there or never enter the market.

We should do the same with Call Centers, if you are not in the USA quadruple the rate on the call center costs and 10 times if the person answering has a voice that you can't discern.

President Trump wants zero tariffs & subsidies, so until countries get the picture, the tariffs must flow.

quote:

Originally posted by lkdr1989:
President Trump wants zero tariffs & subsidies, so until countries get the picture, the tariffs must flow.

Yes, and we all just have to face the fact that there will be short-term pain during this confrontation.

Trump doesn't want tariffs, that's plain for all to see, and he especially doesn't want to impose tariffs on our exports. But until we get the level playing field, he'll talk in the language the world understands.

It's especially irksome to watch H-D pull this shit. They, of all companies, should realize the benefit of tariff protection, since it was the tool of choice that helped them recover in the 1980's. Without it, H-D would be dead and gone.

I suspect an epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome is spreading at H-D.

No. Just hard cold business sense. Trumps tariffs are going to cost them money, so they'll go around them as best they can. Every company is going to do this. None of them are going to say "Trump wants us to pay this tariff, and there's a way to avoid it, but we'll just pay it." That's just not going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:


I suspect an epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome is spreading at H-D.

Harley only sold about 45,000 bikes in Europe last year.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
No. Just hard cold business sense. Trumps tariffs are going to cost them money, so they'll go around them as best they can. Every company is going to do this. None of them are going to say "Trump wants us to pay this tariff, and there's a way to avoid it, but we'll just pay it." That's just not going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:


I suspect an epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome is spreading at H-D.

Harley has been closing and shifting production for a while now.If you want to think that the threat of tariffs caused this I have bridge I will sell you.This is just a way for them to justify the move.Do you think they will move back just as soon as the field is level?

quote:

Originally posted by triggertreat:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
No. Just hard cold business sense. Trumps tariffs are going to cost them money, so they'll go around them as best they can. Every company is going to do this. None of them are going to say "Trump wants us to pay this tariff, and there's a way to avoid it, but we'll just pay it." That's just not going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:


I suspect an epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome is spreading at H-D.

Harley has been closing and shifting production for a while now.If you want to think that the threat of tariffs caused this I have bridge I will sell you.This is just a way for them to justify the move.Do you think they will move back just as soon as the field is level?

Nothing more than HD finally being able to justify offshore production of their bikes (or at least a good portion of parts) to increase their profits. Just look at where their branded apparel is manufactured. That should give most an idea of Harley Davidson's end game.

For a company that is so genuinely "American", they sure are selling out faster than condoms on prom night.

Harley has run out of USA Buyers, young guys don't want 'em old guys are dying off. Plus they created a glut around their 100th anniversary and the used bike market dropped like a rock.
I can buy a low milage fat boy 4years old for under 5k
Full dressers for under 7K
why would I want a new one?
Actually I no longer ride and don't miss it after 40 years...
Every one is Silver haired,old, Bald and or Fat, and still think they're 30 years old with their Marlboros rolled up in their short sleeve. Dude you look stupid, stop embarrassing your children....

That makes sense. So they have to sell overseas to make money.

It would be nice if they built those bikes here. But pumping up the price of steel and aluminum, and then drawing the return fire of foreign tariffs doesn't make that as profitable.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Harley has run out of USA Buyers, young guys don't want 'em old guys are dying off. Plus they created a glut around their 100th anniversary and the used bike market dropped like a rock.
I can buy a low milage fat boy 4years old for under 5k
Full dressers for under 7K
why would I want a new one?
Actually I no longer ride and don't miss it after 40 years...
Every one is Silver haired,old, Bald and or Fat, and still think they're 30 years old with their Marlboros rolled up in their short sleeve. Dude you look stupid, stop embarrassing your children....

I've sold a few overseas (Europe) puts 50% import tax on them at the port!
Japan 70%!
a sportster costs these people $20k +

Trump is SOOOOOO Right, these countries stick it right up our tookus!

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Every one is Silver haired,old, Bald and or Fat, and still think they're 30 years old....

For a minute there I thought this a Chevy Corvette thread!

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Every one is Silver haired,old, Bald and or Fat, and still think they're 30 years old....

For a minute there I thought this a Chevy Corvette thread!

Same head different income levels....

My personal view on HD is that they cannot get out of their own way. They are so stuck on doing the same ol', same ol', that they are being left behind in terms of looks, performance, and VALUE! downtownv has pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There just aren't enough millennials taking the place of the geriatrics on the HD bandwagon.

I am 38 and can't get past the same dull, average, boring styling that hasn't changed in 60 years. The 2017/2018 Harley's look just like those from around 1960 and there are way too many of them. Hell, they're barely any more reliable than those same bikes from the 60's.

I wouldn't mind having one to cruise around on, but I damn sure ain't shelling out what they want for a new one and it wouldn't be as a primary ride either.

American components, Russian components.....all made in Taiwan!

-Lev

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
I've sold a few overseas (Europe) puts 50% import tax on them at the port!
Japan 70%!
a sportster costs these people $20k +

Trump is SOOOOOO Right, these countries stick it right up our tookus!

I was sort of interested in what the EU charged prior to the recent changes in the last couple of days. All I could find ... a Duty of between 6 and 8 percent depending on engine size, plus an additional 20 percent on top of that for value added tax (VAT).

Can you direct us to the 50 percent import tax you're referring to?

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:

......Actually I no longer ride and don't miss it after 40 years...
Every one is Silver haired,old, Bald and or Fat, and still think they're 30 years old with their Marlboros rolled up in their short sleeve. Dude you look stupid, stop embarrassing your children....

Good Lord far from it dude but I'm glad after 40 years of embarrassing your children you quit.

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
I've sold a few overseas (Europe) puts 50% import tax on them at the port!
Japan 70%!
a sportster costs these people $20k +

Trump is SOOOOOO Right, these countries stick it right up our tookus!

I was sort of interested in what the EU charged prior to the recent changes in the last couple of days. All I could find ... a Duty of between 6 and 8 percent depending on engine size, plus an additional 20 percent on top of that for value added tax (VAT).

Can you direct us to the 50 percent import tax you're referring to?

I sold 3 bikes in the early 90's 1 to Germany, 1 to Denmark and 1 to Japan,. All in that's what they got tacked on...they told me when they bought what it was going to cost them delivered to their door.
They prepaid the ocean freight, then they got the Various taxman lined up along the way.

Maybe one of our overseas members can give us today's figures.