So many different opinions on the battle but most agree that lever actions and overwhelming numbers won the day.
On a side note, I'm going to visit the battlefield the middle of next month, haven't been there in over 30 years. Looking forward to see the results of the archeology finds after the fire in the early 80's.

Terrific. I wanted to make that visit for many years, but never did.

Enjoy. Take pictures.

Just watched Winchester '73. Custer appears to be the subplot of the film. The news spread quickly.

While some differing firepower did have some impact most of the debacle was the result of poor tactics and ignoring the advice of scouts and subordinate officers on the strength of the enemy.
Most archaeological artifacts point to a very eclectic mix of arrows muzzleloaders single shots and repeaters. Keep in mind generally the indian warriors did not have real good marksmanship skills and did not maintain arms very well either. Bottom line GAC made some real bad decisions and about half his regiment was wiped out as a result.

We visited the monument when I was around 8 years old, roughly 52 years ago. Somewhere in my treasures I still have a red plastic 45-70 blank cartridge given me by the re-enactor who gave a talk and demonstration of his Trapdoor Springfield that day.

Captain's analysis pretty closely aligns with mine--the repeating rifle thing is overblown, in this case.

We were up there just a couple years ago. It's a beautiful place, as is the western high plains in general. There are many views from the Battlefield site that are untainted by modern life intrusions. Easy to imagine the scene 140 years ago.

The day is also our wedding anniversary. Pretty easy to remember.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
While some differing firepower did have some impact most of the debacle was the result of poor tactics and ignoring the advice of scouts and subordinate officers on the strength of the enemy.
Most archaeological artifacts point to a very eclectic mix of arrows muzzleloaders single shots and repeaters. Keep in mind generally the indian warriors did not have real good marksmanship skills and did not maintain arms very well either. Bottom line GAC made some real bad decisions and about half his regiment was wiped out as a result.

This.

Custer was stupid, reckless, and arrogant.

Some of the contributing factors that rarely gets mentioned is that soldiers of the time were mostly the dregs of society. Ill-educated, if at all, poor motivation, poor equipment, poor training, poor food, poor housing, poor medical care, low pay, and harsh discipline made soldiering a genuine misery.

Cavalry units on the western frontiers were even more miserable (in general) and it was not unusual to find trouble-makers, slackers and other shitbird types from more traditional line units transferred to those frontier cavalry units.

Now take 3000+ horse mounted and very tough tribal warriors confronting a couple of hundred U.S Cavalry, on a wide open plain, those troops had little chance of victory, much less survival.

That battlefield is an eerie place. As TMats said there are a number of vantage points that allow an unobstructed view.

All those white markers identifying where a U.S. Soldier fell, in isolated little clumps scattered about the plain, culminating in the small rise where Custer fell, it is easy to imagine the course of the battle. It really is haunting to look at.

I was there back in 2011 during re-enactment weekend. I walked the fields and looked around - its easy to imagine what it was like - the terrain probably hasn't changed much since the original battle.

Wide open doesn't quite describe the feeling. I came away with a sense of sadness - looking around at some of what passes for 'homes' today is truly eye opening.

It was hard to feel sad for Custer.

One other factor to be taken into account is terrain. Undulating terrain meant the Sioux could get close before opening fire; broken ground limited movement and visibility to the point that the relief effort from Benteen's group was pretty much a forlorn hope given the disparity in numbers.

As for recruits being 'dregs of society', many of the troopers in the 7th were fresh off the boat from Ireland. Part of what may have led to their defeat is that they were deployed without having received anywhere near as much training in fighting on foot as a US Cavalryman was fully expected to have.

I have been. It is an amazing American experience. At least was for me.

It is Eerie as mentioned. Like many historical battlefields where many were lost.

Not sure I completely agree with OcCurts assessment in general.

No one knows for sure what Custer's thought process was. He was, who he was. He was late in his career and it was not going great. And his glory days were mostly behind him. There is no doubt. It is easy to be critical. He made some critical tactical mistakes and misjudgments no doubt. But I was not there and was not party to what happened on that day or days leading up to it.

However, it is very interesting for sure.

quote:

Now take 3000+ horse mounted and very tough tribal warriors confronting a couple of hundred U.S Cavalry, on a wide open plain, those troops had little chance of victory, much less survival.

Not to mention the fact that they were defending their homelands and way of life

have you ever wondered if his relatives wanted people to remember?

or would they wish that people would drop it, drop the whole dam thing.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
have you ever wondered if his relatives wanted people to remember?

or would they wish that people would drop it, drop the whole dam thing.

His widow, Libby, spent the rest of her life keeping his memory alive. Pretty much made a living of it.

So, no.

I came across this the other day. I did not realize the signficance of Commanche and how he had survived the battle. It looks like the taxidermist did an excellent job. Here is the link:

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/3312

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
While some differing firepower did have some impact most of the debacle was the result of poor tactics and ignoring the advice of scouts and subordinate officers on the strength of the enemy.

But if he had, he never would have gotten to utter his famous last words, "Holy shit! Look at all them fucking Indians".

quote:

Originally posted by OcCurt:
Some of the contributing factors that rarely gets mentioned is that soldiers of the time were mostly the dregs of society. Ill-educated, if at all, poor motivation, poor equipment, poor training, poor food, poor housing, poor medical care, low pay, and harsh discipline made soldiering a genuine misery.

Not to mention traipsing around eastern Montana in 90 degree weather wearing wool uniforms.

I was just talking about this with some buddies the other day. Good Lord that must have been miserable. Then, to top it off, you get an arrogant idiot for a commander who gets you into a fight for your life...and death, while being that miserable. Easy to imagine how and why they got their asses handed to them.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
It's a beautiful place,...

Funny how peoples' tastes differ. I despise that country. I spent a summer working at the Crow hospital (right near the battlefield) and living in Hardin and found it awful. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there. An hour or so west, though, over near Pryor or Red Lodge is a whole different story. There I like. You can have the Hardin, Crow, Lodgegrass area.

quote:

Originally posted by OcCurt:
3000+ horse mounted and very tough tribal warriors confronting a couple of hundred U.S Cavalry ....

Yeah, that might have had something to do with it.
And it’s not like it was Rorke’s Drift with a defensible position and time to prepare.

I saw a documentary on the battle in which a forensic examination of the battlefield took place. By matching cartridge cases, they were able to show that the fight was largely conducted as a series of spaced out skirmishes where the troopers were trying to maneuver to consolidate their defense. In the end, these small pockets of resistance were easily overwhelmed by the Indians. It was a very fluid battle, not a "last stand". And use of repeating rifles was a factor. What an earlier poster said about the condition of the Troopers was accurate. One of the skeletons was examined and it showed signs of malnutrition and punishment from long hours on horseback.
The Custer fight was only one aspect of the battle. The failed attack on the Indian village and the subsequent retreat is one for the books.

Link to original video: https://youtu.be/F5SNHuzG2vU

An excellent account of the battle and extensive information on the weapons is "Archaeological Perspectives on the Battle of the Little Bighorn" there's also "Son of the Morning Star,"and "The Little Bighorn Campaign."

After the Battle Libby Custer dedicated her life to building "The Custer Myth." In it Reno and
Bentsen became the villains. She is buried at West Point, supposedly with Custer. However, when parties went to recover the remains from the hasty graves, the grave containing Custer and his brother's couldn't be found. A skeleton was thought to be Custer but, when moved, had identification fall out. Another set of remains was chose and said to be Custer. That's who's buried with Libby.

https://www.amazon.com/Archaeo...ighorn/dp/0806132922
https://books.google.com/books...html?id=-Z-8tIuLsfIC