Few people know the largest all cavalry battle of that war__25,000 cavalry, 12,500 on each side__
took place in Kansas at Mine Creek (about forty minutes South of Kansas City, Kansas on today's US 69.
__ OCTOBER 25TH AND THE BATTLE OF MINE CREEK
BY- LUMIR F. BURESH
The Lowell Press/ Kansas City, Missouri
The reason so few know about it__there was no reporters. The reporters were still arriving by train to Kansas City to write about the Battle of West Port that preceded that at Mine Creek.
The southern cavalry had invaded from Arkansas intending to attack St.Louis. It was discovered by a union patrol near Springfield, Missouri. That caused the southern army to head instead to Kansas City.
The weather was getting cold and about a hundred and fifty union overcoats were taken from a warehouse.
As the southern army left KC and headed South just over the state line in Kansas, it left off a number of cavalry at Trading Post. (Kansas) They were all captured and summarily executed__they were wearing those union overcoats.
The southern cavalry, not realizing 12,500 union was chasing them, got stuck at Mine Creek. They were attempting to get 500 wagons full of loot across the flooded creek when__(Now this is interesting) the union cavalry stopped on a low ridge, saw them in disorder. A captain Benteen saw this and ordered his burglar to blow the charge! Then all the other burglars did the same.
That's the same Benteen that was at the Little Big Horn with Custer.
I have reason to think my great-grandfather was there, Kansas 1st Cavalry. He lost an eye during that war.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo

HJrocket: I am in awe of your experience, sir. We are blessed to count you in our number.

At Shiloh, early in the war, more American men were killed and wounded in that one battle than the combined casualties of every battle in which Americans had fought up until then. And as the war went on, it just got worse. There were 40,000 casualties in the three days of Gettysburg. At Cold Harbor, near the end of the war, 8,000 men fell in the twenty minutes of a catastrophic charge.

For a long time historians agreed on 650,000 as the total killed in the war. More recently, that number has been upped to 750,000. Given the imprecise ways of keeping track of killed and wounded, my own view is that the actual number is even higher.

But even at 650,000, more American men were killed in the Civil War than in all the other wars in which America has fought, combined.

After Shiloh, a Union surgeon wrote back to his wife, "It is slaughter, slaughter."

Four years of slaughter.

I'm from the Gettysburg area & have been visiting the Battlefield all my life. I've often stood at the woods where Pickett's Charge started & looked way across the open field to where the Union troops were dug in & thought WTF was Lee thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
At Shiloh, early in the war, more American men were killed and wounded in that one battle than the combined casualties of every battle in which Americans had fought up until then. And as the war went on, it just got worse. There were 40,000 casualties in the three days of Gettysburg. At Cold Harbor, near the end of the war, 8,000 men fell in the twenty minutes of a catastrophic charge.

For a long time historians agreed on 650,000 as the total killed in the war. More recently, that number has been upped to 750,000. Given the imprecise ways of keeping track of killed and wounded, my own view is that the actual number is even higher.

But even at 650,000, more American men were killed in the Civil War than in all the other wars in which America has fought, combined.

After Shiloh, a Union surgeon wrote back to his wife, "It is slaughter, slaughter."

Four years of slaughter.

Eighteenth century tactics, executed with nineteenth century weapons....

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
There has been a lot said about how the inability of the Federals to pursue and crush the retreating southerners after Gettysburg prolonged the war.
But the more I read about the fighting at Gettysburg, I believe the Feds were just too exhausted to pursue.
Its amazing to me that this horrific battle which took place on American soil on July 3rd. is rarely mentioned on July 4th now.

You may or may not want to read:

Lee, Logistics, & the Pennsylvania Campaign Retreat from Gettysburg by Kent Masterson Brown


One Continuous Fight The retreat from Gettysburg and the Pursuit of Lees Army of Northern Virginia, July 4-14, 1865 by Eric J Wittenberg, J. David Petruzzi, and Michael F. Nugent

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
There were 40,000 casualties in the three days of Gettysburg.

But only 7000 fatalities.

I don't know a lot about the Civil War, but as I recall, there were many battles in which the number killed were much higher. It seems odd that Gettysburg gets the notoriety that it does. The "Address" perhaps?

quote:

Originally posted by stiab:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
...I believe the Feds were just too exhausted to pursue...

Probably so, but it certainly could have ended the War much sooner, as Lee's caravan of supplies and wounded was 75 miles long and could have easily been overtaken.

The Federals were too exhausted to pursue, the Confederates too exhausted to flee. Both sides limped away from that battle.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

...It seems odd that Gettysburg gets the notoriety that it does. The "Address" perhaps?

Wasn't it the turning point of the war? The south never again made it into northern states, they were on defense the rest of the war.

I changed the title of the thread to acknowledge the amazing fact that we have a member who walked the battlefield with veterans of the Gettysburg campaign.

See HJRocket's post on page one of this thread if you missed it.

An actual link to the men who fought and died there. Hard to believe - thanks again to HJRocket for sharing his experience.

re: "It would seem that there is no limit to the breadth and depth of SigForum. Who could imagine that we have members with such close attachments to this major event in our history?


Being swept away by coincidence myself, and NOT claiming any fame/etc, an interesting note:

In 1968 one of my caseload of seniors on Old Age Assistance, was a guy they called 'Grampa' who a t that time was certified as 108. He was a vigorous Italian whose hobby as gardener meant he insisted on nurturing the facility's flower beds, and regularly walked 3 miles over to the next nursing home to visit his girlfriend.

Lucid and very capable of conversing, he once told me he recalled being carried on his dad's shoulders, to see President Lincoln give a speech. He admitted not being certain of exactly which speech or where, as he was "only 4 or 5 at the time". Unverifiable of course, the possibility was oddly powerful.

I worked with a guy whose great-great-granfather fought at Gettsbugh. The family had a letter from him that was a classic of understatement.

It opened:
July 4, 1863
somewhere near Gettysburg, Penn.

Dear Family, well we have had quite a fight with the rebels these last few days, but I think they have had enough and do not think they will be back today. How is the cow doing?”

I regret not asking for a copy of that letter.

I'm in awe of HJrocket's experience. I hope he will tell us a bit more.

"But only 7000 fatalities."

7,000 is the number pretty much agreed on for fatalities at Gettysburg, but I think it is low. If you have ever been to Gettysburg, (like Ironbutt, I live nearby and go there often), you can imagine the utter chaos in 1863 when about 100,000 troops descend on this sleepy farming town from all directions and begin slaughtering one another in their planted fields, their backyards, and in the streets of their town.

There were corpses everywhere, and some (especially Confederate) were buried in mass graves and in shallow graves. Townspeople talked about seeing dogs and hogs running past with body parts in their mouths. The hastily buried were dug up to be reinterred, but...in summer heat... (you could smell Gettysburg miles downwind)...it seems to me very likely that the numbers of dead would have been undercounted, especially Confederate dead.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
At Shiloh, early in the war, more American men were killed and wounded in that one battle than the combined casualties of every battle in which Americans had fought up until then. And as the war went on, it just got worse. There were 40,000 casualties in the three days of Gettysburg. At Cold Harbor, near the end of the war, 8,000 men fell in the twenty minutes of a catastrophic charge.

For a long time historians agreed on 650,000 as the total killed in the war. More recently, that number has been upped to 750,000. Given the imprecise ways of keeping track of killed and wounded, my own view is that the actual number is even higher.

But even at 650,000, more American men were killed in the Civil War than in all the other wars in which America has fought, combined.

After Shiloh, a Union surgeon wrote back to his wife, "It is slaughter, slaughter."

Four years of slaughter.

Eighteenth century tactics, executed with nineteenth century weapons....

Later we had WWI, with both sides using nineteenth century tactics, against twentieth century weapons.....machine guns.

quote:

Originally posted by HJrocket:
In 1938 I attended the 75th and final reunion of the Grand Army of the Republic at Gettysburg. My Dad was in charge of transportation of 280 veterans from Ft. Meye,VA to the battlefield and he took me along. The trip shaped my life, USMA grad. a 34 year Army career. three wars and lots of interesting experiences. I walked the route of Picketts charge with a group of Condfederate vets average age 97.Hard to fathom that I am nearly as old as they were then.

Absolutely amazing. And the litmus test to show us all howe short this journey is. And how close "history" is to "ourstory".

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
"But only 7000 fatalities."

7,000 is the number pretty much agreed on for fatalities at Gettysburg, but I think it is low. If you have ever been to Gettysburg, ...

I've only been there once, and I have to say that it was eerie. I had a very uneasy feeling while I was there and was happy to leave. It was overcast and foggy that day. You could see the fog just rolling across the field in a manner that said, "something really bad happened here."

I agree that that number does seem awfully low, and given that their medical care back then was woeful, many of the wounded (not counted as KIA) died shortly thereafter and thus were not counted. Still though, I've often wondered why it got the notoriety that it did.

I’ve never been to Gettysburg. I’ve been to a few battlefields over the years and this last weekend went to Bentonville in NC. It gets lost to history as it occurred over three days in March 1865 - the last great battle. 80k soldiers (60k yanks and 20k Rebs). Just over 4200 killed, wounded, missing, or captured. I’m still awed at what occurred there and the other battles.

quote:

Still though, I've often wondered why it got the notoriety that it did.

Well, it was fought on Union ground. That was a big part of it-- the "high-water mark" and all that. And it was a huge battle, just in terms of numbers of troops involved. And it was a decisive victory over Robert E. Lee.

Due to a divorce my kids live in Canada with their mother and I get them for a few weeks every summer. My first activity with my 11 year old son this year was visiting Gettysburg on day two of the 155th anniversary. Hot, humid and very educational for him. A trip I hope he remembers.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
It seems odd that Gettysburg gets the notoriety that it does.

Not odd at all if you are a student of the War. It was the turning point and first significant victory over Lee. The fate of the South was sealed after this. This was world wide news at the time, not just an American event.