quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

We believe black lives matter. We are also a family of veterans. If the kneeling dealt specifically with the charity supported that is one thing, and that should have been communicated to the parents in attendance so that we could also take part.

Shake my damn head.

Yeah, still shaking mine, too, especially after the explanation. And, who would kneel to support a charity? Makes no damn sense. I only kneel for God and not any bullshit organizations.

Judging by that sentence, this thread is PC fake outrage. Amazing, really.

So for the next game will all the participants go out and tear up some local restaurants?

quote:

BLM protesters swarm Rochester restaurant, flip tables, throw chairs, chase away terrified customers

I’ll explain this one more time and then that’s it. If you don’t like the explanation I don’t care.

The explanation I was given at the time was that it had something to do for the charity. As I’ve already said, I would have found kneeling an odd way to commemorate some kid with cancer, but I’m assuming if, as I said, it had been covered with the parents ahead of time, we would have gotten that explanation. If you only kneel to God, great. Maybe the parents of this fictional child would ask that everyone kneel and say a prayer for their departed child. Again, I would have thought it weird. As it is, I clearly DIDN’T accept the explanation given which is why I continued to ask questions and found out what actually happened.

As far as removing my kid from the organization:

Maybe sig228 isn’t familiar with this, but the referees aren’t part of the organization. This tournament wasn’t even hosted by our club. So, just to clarify, you think I should burn the world down around my kid because what appears to be a rogue actor, who isn’t even affiliated with the organization, did something like this? You understand that’s the equivalent to burning down your house because the UPS delivery driver had a BLM pin on, right?

For those of you that want me to be more confrontational and angry with people who I’m not even sure knew about the incident yet I’m not sure where that gets me. Being a dick because someone else was a dick still makes you a dick.

As I said in one of my responses: I don’t want any politics....mine or theirs...to be part of this process. Leading out of the gate with “all lives matter” or “fuck everyone who doesn’t agree with me’ gets me nowhere either. Yes, I’m trying to strike a middle road because that’s where most of us have to live and survive. If you can point me in the direction of the “conservatives only” soccer league I’ll get my kid signed right up. Until then, I know that I, and he, are going to have to successfully navigate a world where not everyone sees things how I do. Being an asshole to those people doesn’t accomplish anything and still makes me an asshole. I’m glad you live in a world where you can shun anyone who doesn’t agree with you. I don’t. In fact, here in Northern Virginia the majority of the people are Democrats. I’m trying my damndest to leave. But even when I do I will teach my kids to have their own beliefs, respect that others won’t agree with you, and treat everyone with respect until they don’t deserve it

As of right now the only person I think in this story that falls in that last category is the ref

Although I do agree the coach in charge should have done or said something, it’s not hard to believe that he, like me, didn’t know what the fuck was going on until it was over. The players were literally already in their positions on the field...keepers in the goal...etc...when this guy stopped on his way to bring the ball to midfield to ask the kids to kneel

Beyond that, I’m glad you’re outraged sig228. I’ll make sure to email you next time to ensure my outrage conforms to your vision of what is real outrage and so that it’s not “PC fake outrage”. Or, you’re welcome to accept, as I already have, that my failure to scorch the earth has made me a perpetual disappointment to you, accept that you aren’t going to get satisfaction from this particular thread and just add me to your ignore list.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

We believe black lives matter. We are also a family of veterans. If the kneeling dealt specifically with the charity supported that is one thing, and that should have been communicated to the parents in attendance so that we could also take part.

Shake my damn head.

Yeah, still shaking mine, too, especially after the explanation. And, who would kneel to support a charity? Makes no damn sense. I only kneel for God and not any bullshit organizations.

If and when I have confirmation that it was this douchebag ref I will ask that the club ensure they never hire him, and will make sure that they receive a similar message from all the other parents.

I won’t be able to control if our club plays in a game where he is hired by the other team, but

I will absolutely take responsibility for not paying enough attention to it before it happened. Honestly, it didn’t even occur to me as something I needed to worry about. We’ve now played 4 games since play resumed in august and this is the first time this has ever happened.

My son and I have already talked about what to do if it happens again.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:
So for the next game will all the participants go out and tear up some local restaurants?

quote:

BLM protesters swarm Rochester restaurant, flip tables, throw chairs, chase away terrified customers

Nice rant. That usually happens when you ask for opinions about your actions, but don't like the answers you're given. By your own words, you're a BLM supporter willing to kneel as long as you're given advance notice. Your words, not mine.

Really? Go ahead and quote it because I didn’t say it asshole. And You know I didn’t say it. And you’re just trying to be inflammatory and get a rise out of me. Well, congratulations, it worked.


What I said is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain. Your intentional disregard for what is said, verbatim, before you says a ton more about you than it does about me. That your life is so pathetic that you feel like this is the fight you need to pick is sad. I feel sorry for you.

I knew people wouldn’t like that I was as conciliatory in my email as I was when I posted the email. I could have edited parts of it out and didn’t. The email wasn’t intended for you, or even the board. It was intended for people I actually know and like. Every coach that received that email has had a positive impact on my son. So, yes, my goal was to get across my displeasure while not being confrontational with people I want to continue to have a relationship with.

You have also now provided a further object lesson from this incident, and for that I thank you. I can now show this thread to my sons and point to you as an example of people to avoid in their lives. You have now become yet another textbook definition of an asshole that feels he has to be so confrontational with other people that he even has to lie about it

And that’s what you are

A liar

An asshole

Probably lonely too. Divorced? That assumes you could hide your vitriol long enough to snow some woman into marrying you.

As I said above. Go away. You want to criticize how I said something? Have at it. You don’t agree with it? Great, my goal in life is not to please you.

But the fact that you have to lie about something that is clear for everyone to see is just pathetic.

Are you happy you have accomplished your goal and gotten me to respond this way you tiny-dicked troll? Hopefully it made your day. Rest assured I won’t see your response.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Nice rant. That usually happens when you ask for opinions about your actions, but don't like the answers you're given. By your own words, you're a BLM supporter willing to kneel as long as you're given advance notice. Your words, not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Nice rant. That usually happens when you ask for opinions about your actions, but don't like the answers you're given. By your own words, you're a BLM supporter willing to kneel as long as you're given advance notice. Your words, not mine.

SIG228, you're about the make the same mistake that the ref did.

Free speech means free speech.

Kevbo's son should have had the choice to kneel or not. Each one of us should.

That's the point.

When the national anthem plays, I stand up. I never served, so I choose to put my hand on my heart, not salute. But that's my choice. And the fact that it's my choice means something.

What's the value of compelled patriotism? Compelled activism? Compelled enthusiasm?

If Kevbo or his son want to make a political statement what skin is it off your nose?

If the only contribution you're going to make is to attack Kevbo, I'm going to ask you to stay out of this thread.

***

Kevbo: I'm sorry I didn't get to this thread earlier.

I'm not going to ask you to delete the second half of your last post, but I will ask to you reflect on what kind of light it paints your own character in.

If you chose to leave it up, that's up to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
If and when I have confirmation that it was this douchebag ref I will ask that the club ensure they never hire him, and will make sure that they receive a similar message from all the other parents.

Assuming this ref is a decent ref aside from this incident, I don't think that's the way to go about it. As a parent, you'll likely have little to no control over what ref's are hired or not by the club/league. When I hired umps for our weekend scrimmage games, I never allowed the parents into who was hired or not. If this ref is worth a damn, the league and/or coaches should impress upon him that his political endeavors are not to intrude onto the pitch (how's that for a soccer term from a baseball coach ) again. Maybe this can be solved as easily as that.

quote:

I will absolutely take responsibility for not paying enough attention to it before it happened. Honestly, it didn’t even occur to me as something I needed to worry about.

I'd go easy on yourself there. Apparently the coaches (and I'd bet the club) were completely unaware this was going on. Parents are a layer removed from that. Again, and not to be a broken record, I made it very clear to every layer of the league management in the various leagues my teams played in that 'everything' went through me before it reached my team. No one else spoke for, or made decisions on behalf of my teams. The parents who entrusted me with their kids expected me to both teach and protect them, and I took that responsibility very seriously. Some of the guys out there who are coaching for a paycheck (likely the substitute coach in your case) or for their ego, don't always focus on what's most important for the kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
You have now become yet another textbook definition of an asshole that feels he has to be so confrontational with other people that he even has to lie about it

And that’s what you are

A liar

An asshole

Probably lonely too. Divorced? That assumes you could hide your vitriol long enough to snow some woman into marrying you.

As I said above. Go away. You want to criticize how I said something? Have at it. You don’t agree with it? Great, my goal in life is not to please you.

But the fact that you have to lie about something that is clear for everyone to see is just pathetic.

Are you happy you have accomplished your goal and gotten me to respond this way you tiny-dicked troll? Hopefully it made your day. Rest assured I won’t see your response.

Got to admit... Your original post/email would have been a lot more entertaining to read had you not held this sort of stuff back.

Personally, I don't agree with a few of the things you included (as others have already pointed out), but I can understand not wanting to be overly confrontational and put your son in a rough spot.

Your email was reasonable, thoughtful, responsible and clear. Good for your son that you didn't set the example some in this thread suggested

I applaud your effort to keep *all* the politics off the playing field. If you feel the need to go nuclear on them later, so be it, but the organization does deserve a chance to correct the course of the rogue responsible.

It really wouldn't be an issue if the players, individually, made a choice to kneel, salute, or do whatever the flavor of the day is. When an adult directs it, especially a referee who is required to be neutral in all respects beyond administering the game per the rule book, then the problem begins.

I'd have a problem if the coach directed the kids to kneel, too.

If it isn't the players choice, then it's wrong, no matter how one slices it. Kevbo is right; it puts the kids under pressure regardless, and whether there's recrimination for failing to comply or do as others, there's peer pressure, and always the sense that someone in authority has directed the act.

It's not the place of a coach or referee to instil political values on in the players.

Directing the kids to kneel is completely out of line.

As a father of kids who have been in organized sports since they were 3, and a football, baseball and archery coach including middle school teams, I think you handled it well so far. I wouldn’t have written all the same things you did but I understand the concept of attracting more flies with honey and all that.

I also agree that it’s not worth destroying the world over the actions of one person. Finding out who knew what and when is important. Now if the league and coaches support the actions, I’d likely pull my kid and walk. But until I knew there for sure I’d do like you and investigate the issue.

Good luck Kevbo.

Some folks are far too eager to eat their/our own on here.

I'm curious to see what kind of response you get, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Hol' up... Before this gets too out of hand, take a second and reread the OP.

A few of you guys are clearly conflating BLM with whichever charity was the focus of the tournament.

It was a charity benefit tournament, and it was this (unnamed) charity that he indicated in his email he was willing to kneel for, if it had been discussed beforehand.

He never said he'd be willing to kneel for BLM.

Reading is fundamental. It's helpful to closely read and understand someone's post before you start "shaking your head" and calling them out.

The letter to the club/coaches was well written and none of your justified irritation showed.

Not sure what to hope for, other than that you and your son, and the rest of the kids and parents can just enjoy good sportsmanship, free of politics, going forward.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
A few of you guys are clearly conflating BLM with whichever charity was the focus of the tournament.

It was a charity benefit tournament, and it was this (unnamed) charity that he indicated in his email he was willing to kneel for, if it had been discussed beforehand.

You're kidding, right? Somehow given its a "charity", kneeling is somehow now appropriate. The charity, as well as this ref, can kiss my ass. Parents pay both for instruction (i.e. coaching) as well as (likely) game and tournament fees, so since my kid and I are paying to be there, we'll honor the pledge and/or National Anthem, but that's it. My teams would not kneel for anything short of for an injured teammate or opposing player. Hell, I didn't 'require' my players to participate in the very brief team prayer after every game if their parents were uncomfortable with it.

Regardless how you read the initial post, there are four constants here....

1 - The ref completely screwed up doing what he did.
2 - The club/league screwed up not having a very strong policy about this sort of nonsense. (Assumed on my part given the circumstances.)
3 - The substitute coach was clueless (as most are).
4 - Kevbo doesn't like or agree with what happened and has reached out to the club.

No need to debate much beyond those points.

I made no comment either way on the appropriateness of it, bigdeal. You're putting words in my mouth.

I was merely pointing out that those who were claiming that Kevbo "said he would kneel for BLM" has clearly misread what he wrote:

quote:

If the kneeling dealt specifically with the charity supported that is one thing, and that should have been communicated to the parents in attendance so that we could also take part.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
I made no comment either way on the appropriateness of it, bigdeal. You're putting words in my mouth.

I was merely pointing out that those who were claiming that Kevbo "said he would kneel for BLM" has clearly misread what he wrote:

quote:

If the kneeling dealt specifically with the charity supported that is one thing, and that should have been communicated to the parents in attendance so that we could also take part.

Ok, point taken. Please forgive me but I have a passion for youth sports and coaching after having spent almost 10 years coaching 12 months a year, and it chaps me when coaches fail their players and/or parents when it comes to issues that never should have been issues. Case in point. When the ref in Kevbo's case gathered all the players together on the field, I'd have likely been with my team at that point and would have inquired as to what was up. Once I found out what the plan was, I'd have simply told the ref my boys would not be participating. With that, the overall incident would likely have never occurred. The real issue here is not with the ref or Kevbo, but with how the coaching and the club/league handled it (i.e. they didn't handle it).

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
Really? Go ahead and quote it because I didn’t say it asshole. And You know I didn’t say it. And you’re just trying to be inflammatory and get a rise out of me. Well, congratulations, it worked.


What I said is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain. Your intentional disregard for what is said, verbatim, before you says a ton more about you than it does about me. That your life is so pathetic that you feel like this is the fight you need to pick is sad. I feel sorry for you.

I knew people wouldn’t like that I was as conciliatory in my email as I was when I posted the email. I could have edited parts of it out and didn’t. The email wasn’t intended for you, or even the board. It was intended for people I actually know and like. Every coach that received that email has had a positive impact on my son. So, yes, my goal was to get across my displeasure while not being confrontational with people I want to continue to have a relationship with.

You have also now provided a further object lesson from this incident, and for that I thank you. I can now show this thread to my sons and point to you as an example of people to avoid in their lives. You have now become yet another textbook definition of an asshole that feels he has to be so confrontational with other people that he even has to lie about it

And that’s what you are

A liar

An asshole

Probably lonely too. Divorced? That assumes you could hide your vitriol long enough to snow some woman into marrying you.

As I said above. Go away. You want to criticize how I said something? Have at it. You don’t agree with it? Great, my goal in life is not to please you.

But the fact that you have to lie about something that is clear for everyone to see is just pathetic.

Are you happy you have accomplished your goal and gotten me to respond this way you tiny-dicked troll? Hopefully it made your day. Rest assured I won’t see your response.

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Nice rant. That usually happens when you ask for opinions about your actions, but don't like the answers you're given. By your own words, you're a BLM supporter willing to kneel as long as you're given advance notice. Your words, not mine.

Lol, even better rant.