Who cares? Honestly, in Arizona we don’t have any kind of registration. There’s nothing that stops me from buying a gun, taking it out shooting it, hating it, and selling it in the gas station parking lot. (Obviously if you do this daily might raise some red flags, but just pointing out private sales are legal in Arizona). I point this out because the only reason I can think of a law-abiding citizen caring is if they thought “the man” was going to come take their guns there’s nothing stopping them from telling them “nope, sold those”

So why anybody would care if they buy privately or from a dealer is beyond me besides they can’t legally buy from a dealer, which pisses me off because your dumbass shouldn’t be buying a gun in the first place.

Nothing pisses me off more being an FFL holder than people asking if you’re private or a dealer or my favorite is when they ask if I’m a private dealer. My response to am I a private dealer is always yes then when I tell them to fill out paperwork I just let them know I’m not a publicly traded dealer… There’s no such thing as a private dealer idiots either you’re a dealer or you’re not or you’re doing illegal stuff.

I guess I don’t understand why anybody should care, if the deal is right, if you’re buying from a private individual or a dealer. Personally I’d almost prefer it be a dealer if price and everything was equal…

Sorry for poor grammar and punctuation it’s late was just reading some emails in response to some online ads we have, which clearly state we’re a dealer in the title and the whole first paragraph of the ads state what is needed to purchase..

They are clearly hoping to avoid the paper trail. Can you blame them with the alphabets knocking on people’s doors lately?

I agree with the OP... If they come knocking on my door they won't be after my guns they'll be after me.

The reality is I'm not afraid of this 'paper trail' I have no plans to do anything I need to hide from.

And I've had the 'alphabets' knock at my door.

I understand what they are saying, but think focusing on the 4473 might be a bit silly in the big picture. That is only one of many paper trails that we all leave behind. If it ever came to door kicking, I'd imagine that any 4473 at any point in your life, along with ammo purchases on credit cards, magazine subscriptions, NRA memberships or participation on this forum would be used as probable cause for "The Man" to come for a visit. Saying "I sold it" or the stupid "lost in a boating accident" isn't going to send them on their way.

It kind of reminds me of my elderly aunt who was warning us about the dangers of aluminum in anti-perspirant while she chain smoked cigarettes.

The new Officers at our local shooting range decided that all firearm sales that happened in the club swap meet had to go through a dealer. This has never happened before in all the years the club's been in existence.

So when people decided to buy/sell a gun, they stepped outside the swap meet venue, did the deal, then went back in.

Nobody has ever been convicted of anything for selling a gun to another person in a private sale in Arizona as long as they stated they checked his Drivers License.

I’ve talked to more than a few average guys who say none their guns are “registered”. They bought them face to face or received them as gifts with no paperwork. They consider the paper trail to be registration. Most people don’t understand the need or use for the paper trail aside from de facto registration.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
The new Officers at our local shooting range decided that all firearm sales that happened in the club swap meet had to go through a dealer. This has never happened before in all the years the club's been in existence.

So when people decided to buy/sell a gun, they stepped outside the swap meet venue, did the deal, then went back in.

Nobody has ever been convicted of anything for selling a gun to another person in a private sale in Arizona as long as they stated they checked his Drivers License.

a good idea to check for az dl but is it required by statute??

I can see both sides but as pointed out already the 4473 isn’t the only paper trail most people leave. I’d be willing to bet that a vast majority of the people who refuse to buy guns through a FFL also buy plenty of gun related items online or with a credit card. One of those recent videos with ATF showing up at a guys house was because the guy allegedly bought a solvent trap online.

I did get a killer deal on a Glock 23 once from a local gun classifieds website. The owner wanted to do a transfer through a FFL instead of just face to face, and even said he’d pay the transfer fee. Similar condition Glock 23’s listed at a $100 and more than his were being bought quickly but his had sat for a week before I saw it and jumped on it.

quote:

Originally posted by airbubba:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
The new Officers at our local shooting range decided that all firearm sales that happened in the club swap meet had to go through a dealer. This has never happened before in all the years the club's been in existence.

So when people decided to buy/sell a gun, they stepped outside the swap meet venue, did the deal, then went back in.

Nobody has ever been convicted of anything for selling a gun to another person in a private sale in Arizona as long as they stated they checked his Drivers License.

a good idea to check for az dl but is it required by statute??

Nope, but it's a good idea as we get illegals here, both from south of the border and people from Kalifornia who want to buy a gun they can't get at home and then bring it back. Even that isn't the seller's problem, though, but cops from over there like to think their jurisdiction is the world.

I’ve sold a few guns face to face and I usually want to see a DL and a carry permit. While not legally required to, I also don’t want to sell to someone not allowed to own a firearm so I take a little extra precaution. I have also only sold guns to active members of a couple forums that had what I considered a reasonable history on that forum.

Doesn't matter to me either way! Price is what I'm looking at!

There are lots of reasons to prefer face to face. If Feds never show up to your door you can't get in trouble by lying to them about your boating accident. Yes I buy ammo but I could easily account for that with a 4473 paper trailed gun. I don't want to pay transfer fees. I don't want to pay sales tax.

I don't see your angst. At all. I wish I could buy every gun I own face to face.

tin foil runs deep with some folks, saying that as a 01FFL/SOT

Maybe the Buyer is concerned that he could be buying a Stolen Firearm ?

One of the ironies of the 4473 form is that a good many of the questions you have to answer on it would be illegal to ask if you were applying for a job. The one they recently added "are you Latin?'is totally ridiculous... how can the BAFTe be so racist? Also, since in theory the form stays at the FFL and is only looked at by a LEO if searching for some gun specifically... why does it need anything more than your name and address and that you can legally own a gun on it?

"Are you Latin?" is NOT on a 4473. They ask you to identify if you are hispanic or not and what race you are. You're free to check all that you believe apply, or in the manner in which you identify that day.If I feel like a black hispanic non-binary they/them that day, that's what I put.

Yea, I don't really think you proved him wrong. They don't use the word "latin" but they absolutely are asking race and color. That seems odd on an application from the government where you literally can't ask that shit if you are applying for a loan but on a gun its ok?

As for putting down different answers I am not so sure that is a good idea either. Maybe nothing, maybe something if there is ever an issue.

Once again, seems like a face to face with no paper trail isn't the worst of ideas.

I honestly don't know what their capabilities are. I do know the less info they have to start with the less those capabilities can be.

Face to face baby, every day all day.

I could care less if I'm buying from an FFL or a private individual, but when I buy on the forum (not face-to-face), I prefer that the shipping be from an FFL holder. I always have trouble finding a local FFL nowadays who'll accept incoming shipments from non-FFL holders. A couple of years ago, this wasn't a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
The one they recently added "are you Latin?'is totally ridiculous... how can the BAFTe be so racist?

That's standard federal OMB demographics format, and has been for over a decade. All federal forms that include race/ethnicity are required to follow this format. Many lower levels of state/county/city government as well as private companies also follow this same demographic collection format.

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Race is one of five categories:
White
Black
Asian
Native American
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander

People of Hispanic ethnicity can fall under one of several of those races, including White (many/most of them), Black (especially common in the Caribbean nations like Haiti/Dominican Republic), or even Native American (from one of many indigenous Latin American groups).

Therefore, since it was determined that it is important to have statistics specifically on those of Hispanic descent, they can't just stop with the lone question about Race alone. In order to capture a statistic specifically for Hispanic ethnicity, they have to add a further question: "Are you of Hispanic origin?" Yes/No

This dual question set then gets them stats on overall racial breakdown, as well as stats on Hispanic ethnicity specifically.


So one can argue whether the 4473 should include race/ethnicity at all, but if it does, it has to be collected in that format.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I don't want to pay transfer fees. I don't want to pay sales tax.

I don't see your angst. At all. I wish I could buy every gun I own face to face.

Never seen a transfer fee to buy a gun from a dealer and I said if the price and everything being equal (that includes tax or whatever else included). I often see the dealers at gun shows sell a new gun for let’s say $1000 and that same gun “privately” somewhere else used for $1500 or more.

I have angst for piece of shit people that can’t legally own guns buying guns. Shit like that is the problem with the firearms industry and I like the firearms industry. This is the kind of shit that the media and politicians can blow up into a much bigger problem and try to infringe on law-abiding citizen’s rights.

I get there’s no good fix for it… just bitching