Just like I said back on page 1 - they told us if you fail a sting, it’s not just on the store, it’s on you also. Page 2, I said depending on the circumstances, you also go to jail.

You’ve heard it from someone who managed alcohol sales and dealt with stings, you’ve heard it from someone who sold alcohol and was wary of stings, and now you’ve heard it straight from someone who conducts stings. Now let’s have a few more pages of people saying it’s not the law, it’s stupid corporate policies, stupid clerks, and lack of respect.

Smudge I don’t know what you think you are reading. He very clearly is describing mandatory stings. They used actual underage persons. They use underage persons because the crime is SELLING TO MINORS. The crime isn’t “you didn’t check ID on an alcohol sale”.

You have proven nothing. 4 pages in and not one single mention of an actual law that requires ID checks on alcohol sales. Not one. Selling to a minor is illegal in all 50 states. That’s a given. Not checking ID’s is a blanket policy for stupid people who can’t trust their hiring practices. It literally is the lowest common denominator policy.

Where in America does the law require an ID check to sell alcohol? In the previous example they could send in a 30 year old if they are just checking for ID check compliance.

So far we haven’t actually heard any of the things you claim. Reread his post. It’s right above yours and tell us again that ID checks on 90 year olds is the law.

“Now let’s have a few more pages of people saying it’s not the law, it’s stupid corporate policies, stupid clerks, and lack of respect”. You might get a few more pages because it is all those things. It’s not the law to card a 90 year old. If you don’t card a 90 year old and he turns out to be 15 in actuality that’s when you broke the law. The guy in the previous post went to great detail to explain how they don’t try to trick the vendor into selling anything. No disguises, no obfuscation, nothing. Walk in as a minor and try to buy booze. It is a policy to require ID checks on everyone as an idiotic way to ensure your lazy stupid clerk doesn’t sell to a minor. Same as requiring a birthday input. All to make sure a brain dead give a shit employee doesn’t cause you to lose your liquor license.

quote:

All to make sure a brain dead give a shit employee doesn’t cause you to lose your liquor license.

So you agree then, the policy makes complete sense.

How many employees do you have Pedro?

quote:

Smudge I don’t know what you think you are reading. He very clearly is describing mandatory stings. They used actual underage persons. They use underage persons because the crime is SELLING TO MINORS. The crime isn’t “you didn’t check ID on an alcohol sale”.

^^^^^^^^^^^
The ABC board here ONLY visits places where they have had complaints. Time is limited. I have never seen them in grocery stores. Generally they check convenience stores.

Yes you guys are correct. I must own a chain of liquor sales to understand basic principles. Got it.

What I agree with is that if you hire idiots you are forced to make idiotic policies.

What I agree with is that you can make a policy that if you aren’t sure what to do, ask the boss.

What I agree with is that idiotic policies still won’t stop an idiot employee from breaking your policy. They still can. And will. Hire and train competent people. Have effective management on site. If Chik fucking fil a can do it so can you.

It’s a choice a business makes. Manage a smartly run business or hire idiots, don’t manage your workforce, come up with idiotic policy in an attempt to keep them in line.

Bad policy is bad. It is bad as a country. It is bad as a business. Embracing it as your only option and we should all just used to it is self fulfilling. And stupid.

I will step back and let you guys get the last word. Let’s see, how many businesses do you run, don’t like it go elsewhere, it’s the LAW, blah blah blah.

The reason for asking if you own a business is simple. You are asking a lot for a business owner to accomplish for a minimum wage job. Hire and train competent people? Sorry those people aren’t working a register at BJs. The people working a register aren’t qualified to do a “void” if the ring something wrong.

The mistake of serving an underaged person is too costly. The employer has put in an engineering control to remove that risk completely. Well not completely. Fake ids and such. But the risk is mitigated. Makes perfect sense. I’m clearly way past 21 and know enough to have ID for booze.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
You might get a few more pages because it is all those things.

Horseshit.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
It’s not the law to card a 90 year old.

And if it was, you'd cry about that, too. Tell me I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I will step back and let you guys get the last word.

No ID, no sale.

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
The mistake of serving an underaged person is too costly. The employer has put in an engineering control to remove that risk completely. Well not completely. Fake ids and such. But the risk is mitigated. Makes perfect sense. I’m clearly way past 21 and know enough to have ID for booze.

The way I see it is when a company makes that the policy and (hopefully) trains their employees with it and has it in the employee handbook, that passes the liability to the individual away from the company. What happens then? The employee is fired and and the law deals with that individual instead of the business losing a large stream of revenue.

Employees can destroy a business with the smallest thing. Like an employee at a fast food place who refuses to serve cops because he/she doesn't like the police. Word gets out and people stop going there. Business drops and it goes out of business.

All of us, even if we are a business owner, work for someone else.

Guys, a couple of you are acting foolishly and far too invested in this thread.

Lighten up.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Guys, a couple of you are acting foolishly and far too invested in this thread.

Lighten up.

Whether it's the law , or it's a policy , just flash your ID or shop somewhere that you are not so easily offended . Some subjects are worthy of a spirited debate . This is just not one of them .

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
There are a number of businesses that set up their POS (Cash Register) to not let an alcoholic sale go through without swiping a Drivers License.
.

In WA we have a big Box chain that’s does this.
However, I checked the law:
Acceptable identification is:

Driver’s License, Instruction Permit, or I.D. Card issued by any U.S. State, U.S. Territory and District of Columbia.
Driver’s License, Instruction Permit, or I.D. Card issued by any Canadian Province
Valid Washington State Temporary Driver’s License
U.S. Armed Forces I.D. Card (Encrypted signature acceptable)
Merchant Marine I.D. Card issued by the U.S. Coast Guard
Official Passport, passport card, NEXUS card
Washington State Tribal Enrollment Card (No expiration date required

The store would not accept by Army ID because “It doesn’t have your birthday on it.”