This may be entirely petty but...

I do talk to non-gun lefty types, because I still know a few who haven't jettisoned me. I've gotten a range of responses from "That is dumb, sorry" to "I don't care" to "Ha fuck you because your side killed abortion and hates trans people."

Hey, listen. I've long been a small l libertarian. Maximum rights for the people, minimum govt. I actually support peoples rights to be weird.

But after all the leftist crowing about how everyone needs to be an "ally," yet they'll not support you..... I guess I'll just sign up for Conservative now.

If your group is having its rights attacked, and when you achieve power, you attack others rights.. this is a cycle of violence, not justice, revenge or fairness.

People who feel their Abortion rights are stripped away, who then push for gun control just to stick it to the group they feel wronged them... that attitude is dangerous. It can be used by politicians to let the pendulum erode all rights.

Gun rights are human rights, and belong to everyone. Freedom of speech isn't possible without the right to bear arms, nor any other inalienable right. If the govt has a monopoly on force, all that shit gets pretty alienable..

I'll stick it out here, because I've got a good job and will take it to retirement. By then, if things still suck, maybe we move, or maybe my son lives in a Free State. It's a damn fucking shame that a state with such history is dominated by elite leftist snobs.

Is there a good summary of what's being proposed? The info I'm finding doesn't address the concerns re: future in-state transfers, or the 'if it's in your house you can keep it' exclusion indicated in the OP.

Is there a good summary? No. I did read it, it's a mess.

Here is the run down, just of the high points:

No pre-ban, no "grandfathering"

Everything semiauto is banned, retroactive to 1994

If you have something "noncompliant," you can sell it out of state, have it destroyed, or just keep it. But you can't sell/transfer/give it to anyone. Upon your passing... sell out of state or destroy. This is just because they can't/won't ring doorbells....

Magazine serialization

Parts serialization

Repair/replacement part transfers

Banning of machineguns (they are legal here, I know people who collect them..)

Banning of "ghost guns"

Banning of 3d printed firearms, switches, bump stocks etc.

Ridiculous licensing requirements, live fire, written tests

Kids younger than 15 cannot touch guns

Pot is legal in MA, the bill makes it specifically illegal for anyone who owns/uses firearms to use pot. Anyone who has been trying to follow the law who owns guns, understands the 4473 and federal law... well this makes it really official.

There is more, but it crushes gun owners, destroys local gun shops, and dissuades any retailer online or otherwise from bothering to do business in the state.

It's a cut and paste of all the shittiest anti-gun nonsense that you've already seen, plus new and innovative fuckery.

Why is MA "safe?" Is it the "strong gun laws?" No, it's the economy. But we still need to "do more." Meanwhile, literally none of this has anything that will impact the crime that does occur in the state.

This is so onerous, that if it is not challenged by multiple 2A organizations, I'm not sure why we have them. While there are other places farting about with anti-gun legislation... They all will marvel at this bill and certainly copy it if it is allowed to stand.

A link to the text of the bill

There exists I believe a prohibition in the General Court going back to the 1990's that prohibits the NRA from lobbying in the Commonwealth. All lobbying is done by GOAL of Massachusetts. The problem is the Speaker, Senate President and Governor are all Democrat leftists. The Republicans don't wield any power, even when Charlie Parker was Biden's favorite Republican Governor. The only shot is looking for a ballot referendum, but most voters are left and Democrat. Arc you're west of 128 I believe, Boston, especially Mass and Cass is already San Francisco and Portland, Lawrence, Lowell and Lynn aren't far behind. The problem will be when it hits the places like Lexington, Belmont, Marblehead, Manchester by the sea, Duxbury and Cohasset or Wayland, Wellesley and Weston. I to have conversations with people on the left, many think only the police and military should have guns. These are educated professionals who've drank the Kool Aid. Like you I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative, less Government, more freedoms and less taxes, unfortunately that isn't the birth place of liberty any longer.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Is there a good summary? No. I did read it, it's a mess.

A link to the text of the bill

I had 'started' to read the text of the bill earlier, but after a couple of minutes determined it was a complete waste of time! Completely Incoherent...Basically a list of change this shit that's banned to this giant list of shit that's banned!

My game plan, with the firearms, is to do nothing. They aren't going to "come and take it," unless the bill changes in committee. My goal in the immediate future is simple. Prevent this place from convincing my son he should cut his dick off. After that, everything else is less important.

If I didn't have a family, a career, and own a home, I believe the kids say "Catch me outside" or something?

The ban on machineguns is problematic for a bunch of reasons, but I'd put at the top that people who collect them are typically wealthy... who knows where they'll spend that money.. I hope they just don't leave, but focus on fighting the bill.

The retroactive ban is the biggest piece affecting everyone. The '94 ban and what was "compliant" then, has been in effect here the whole time.... Generally when legislation passes, it's "when the bill takes effect." Now, they get a time machine? Naw bruh.

The bill is so odious, it might be "good" in the long run. I can't imagine it surviving scrutiny in our nations highest court.

Its immediate effect will be to create felons of lawful citizens, kill businesses, and probably ensure a robust black market.

Most of the people I know who fled my state was to get their kids out of tranny enabling school systems. That would make it worth moving alone.

quote:

The bill is so odious, it might be "good" in the long run. I can't imagine it surviving scrutiny in our nations highest court.

According to the latest video put out by GOAL, it will take years to wind through the courts, the courts will look at this bill piecemeal, and there's no guarantee the Supreme Court will even look at it (whatever the court's make-up is by the time pieces of this bill get there). According to GOAL, the Supreme Court refused to review then Attorney-General Healy's unilateral decision to ban so-called assault rifles in the Commonwealth.

Stay positive....

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Most of the people I know who fled my state was to get their kids out of tranny enabling school systems. That would make it worth moving alone.

One day, my son came home from Pre-K and told me "boys can grow up to be girls and girls can grow up to be boys." That was the last straw. Every gun bill that passed thereafter was simply salt in the wound until we could finally get out.

That, and the roving bands of junkies who invaded the wooded areas around my house. Covington was nice when we first moved there. We got out when the first advance scouting party Winnebago parked in the Safeway parking lot for a month. A month or two after we left, someone drive a car through the smoke shop fifty yards from there. Seems like the timing wasn't so bad.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:Hey, listen. I've long been a small l libertarian. Maximum rights for the people, minimum govt. I actually support peoples rights to be weird.

I was working with Bob Poole at General Research in 1975 when he bought Reason magazine. I subscribed to the magazine for several years but it was a little too far out for me.

In the 80's, you had to get Fairfax County Police approval to buy a handgun. I wasn't approved so I had it shipped to Loudoun County since I owned property there.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

One day, my son came home from Pre-K and told me "boys can grow up to be girls and girls can grow up to be boys."

If that had been me, the kid would have been pulled from that "school" so fast that they wouldn't even hear the WOOSH!

This was Pre-K, so a private facility? You were paying them for this crap?

When someone left-leaning will talk to me, which isn't very often.. I say this:

Children do not need to be taught to be "anti-racist" or "tolerant," or that they can choose a gender or any of this garbage.

Children need to be shown what societies rules are. You simply don't teach them racism, as it is learned... and so on. They need a mom and a dad, they will observe how these people behave in the world..

Maybe a child is gay? We still don't need to talk to them about that until they are much older. Young children do not need to be taught about trans, they don't care and don't need to. Children do not need to be taught not to be bigots.

They CERTAINLY don't need to be taught that the color of their skin means they're guilty and privileged. The idea that people teach white kids that shit, while if someone tried to teach a similar thing to a black child they'd lose their mind...

The world is way more upside down that I sure thought it would ever be. Maybe my son is gay, maybe he IS trans... but he sure doesn't need "instruction" in any of that. He can be whoever he is, and anyone I find telling him who he should be, will have ME to deal with.

This gun control dogshit, defund the police and on and on... and I feel like the younger generations are more worthless than even the shittiest hippie.

There is NO ONE who is actually "anti-gun." There are people who believe in personal freedom and responsibility, and there are people who want their government to have a monopoly on force. The guns never go away.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
If that had been me, the kid would have been pulled from that "school" so fast that they wouldn't even hear the WOOSH!

I had a chat with the director of the place the next day. She said she had no idea where it came from because they didn't teach that kind of stuff... yet. I think he got it from another kid.

When he was five, we left a playground because there was a family of rainbow hairs (I'm not being allegorical, their hair was all dyed different shades of neon) and one of them was maybe a ten year old girl wearing a t-shirt that was about ten sizes too big for her to cover up whatever body hadn't begun to develop yet who was proudly and loudly going around proclaiming she was a boy. My son came to me and said "Dad, that girl thinks she's a boy." I smiled at him and told him she was confused, and asked if he'd like to go get icecream. He forgot all about her and we left in a hurry. There was essentially no escaping it even at his age being that close to Seattle.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
This was Pre-K, so a private facility? You were paying them for this crap?

Yes. We were both working during the day and had no local family to watch him, so we needed daytime care. It was the only place in town that had any openings and we had to do what we had to do.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Children do not need to be taught not to be bigots.

This is a good distillation of it. Some kids can be total buttholes, and it's just innate. Those kids don't hate people for being different skin colors, though, they learn that shit from the adults they're around. I have examples, but I don't wanna take your thread further afield than I have.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
There is NO ONE who is actually "anti-gun." There are people who believe in personal freedom and responsibility, and there are people who want their government to have a monopoly on force. The guns never go away.

That's why David Hogg and his group are so important for the grabbers. Gotta have kids as spokespeople on the front lines. They don't know what they believe yet, but they have all that youthful passion. Give them an emotional event, point them in a direction and watch them go.

They want children, because it is bad optics to argue with a child. Greta Thunberg anyone?

I would hope that my son moves out of state, or in time this shit is overturned. Who can say. I will write salty letters.

Come up to NH. We need more folks like you to offset some of the other MA transplants before they metastasize and ruin it here too. The money you get from selling your house in MA will go a lot further in NH.

I left MA in 2005 and you could not put a gun to my head to get me to move back.

I'm here for ~20ish years at least, because life is more than guns.

I've written emails, and I and folks I know have been actively blocked from additional email. Their staff can digitally ignore you, or make you sign up for lists or whatever. I'm not surprised.

I will say this.

Last weekend, I went and picked up SOCOM 16. I bought it from a notorious site. "The Mill" in Lincoln. I can't accurately describe how busy it was in that building. They seemed surprised I wanted something that was approved here, and that I needed MIRCs.

The feds and local cops raided the place, the state cracked down..... and I think it's been jam packed ever since. Who is buying these guns? Well, they're doing the fucking 4473's..

Gun laws are dumb, people who actually follow them are fucking dolts. I'm a dolt, because I follow the law.

You can't make fucking laws for people who don't follow the law. It's not, and never has been about solving "gun violence."

I can't accurately express my disdain.

It looks like this bill is temporarily off the table. I am sure it will rear its ugly head in the Fall but at least it will not move forward without the public hearings they were desperately trying to avoid...

Quote from GOAL Press release follows:

HD.4420 Update July 25, 2023

Massachusetts House Speaker Mariano Delays Anti-Civil Rights Bill

Blames the U.S. Supreme Court for not Being Able to Oppress Citizens

On Monday, July 24, 2023 Massachusetts House Speaker Ron Mariano issued a statement to the members of the Massachusetts House of Representatives. In the release, he announced a delay on any action regarding HD.4420. The bill is referred to as the “Lawful Citizens Imprisonment Act” by the Second Amendment Community.

HD.4420 represents, perhaps, the most egregious anti-civil rights legislation filed by a high-ranking legislative official in this century. Mariano had previously set an aggressive deadline for passing the oppressive act by July 31, 2023. A tremendous goal since the bill was only filed on June 26, 2023.

“It is painfully clear that, whoever actually drafted the bill, had no idea the firestorm of opposition it would set off, said Jim Wallace, Executive Director of Gun Owners’ Action League (GOAL). “It was painfully obvious to anyone who paid attention that the, so-called, “listening tour” was a sham from the beginning. Even the opposition to the Second Amendment during the tour continually said that lawful gun owners were not the problem. Chairman Day echoed that sentiment many times, but his legislation reflected just the opposite.”

As GOAL has stated several times since this bill was filed, the Speaker and Chairman Day seem to be channeling Governor Wallace of Alabama after Brown v. Board of Education just 50 years after that infamous speech.

GOAL will continue to work with its members to battle any further oppression of our Second Amendment community. It seems that a government willfully neglectful in punishing criminals, will find another group to persecute to cover up their true intensions.

Massachusetts House Speaker Mariano July 24, 2023“As you have heard me say many times, the Bruen decision fundamentally changed how courts review state gun laws and immediately jeopardized aspects of the laws that have made our Commonwealth a national leader in reducing gun violence. While the House’s commitment to pursuing a comprehensive update remains steadfast, a new legal landscape will be the greatest threat to those efforts.”

Governor George Wallace (Alabama) June 11, 1963“The unwelcomed, unwanted, unwarranted and force-induced intrusion upon the campus of the University of Alabama today of the might of the Central Government offers frightful example of the oppression of the rights, privileges and sovereignty of this State by officers of the Federal Government.”



The Speaker’s Full Release to House Members:

Honorable Members –

Thank you for your attendance at last week’s leadership briefings and continued conversations regarding the House’s gun violence legislation. Many of your questions were centered around the challenging new legal landscape following the Bruen decision. I am thankful for the productive feedback that we received, as well as for the legislators and members of the public who participated in the 11 listening sessions around the Commonwealth. I would also like to offer my sincere gratitude to Chairman Michael Day for thoroughly engaging the public and putting forward such a thoughtful bill for our consideration.

As you have heard me say many times, the Bruen decision fundamentally changed how courts review state gun laws and immediately jeopardized aspects of the laws that have made our Commonwealth a national leader in reducing gun violence. While the House’s commitment to pursuing a comprehensive update remains steadfast, a new legal landscape will be the greatest threat to those efforts. That is why the House believes that we must thoroughly evaluate all of the proposals made in HD4420 over the Summer, and that House Members must have the chance to continue to speak with their constituents and provide feedback. House leadership will continue to work on the bill until it is ready for debate this Fall.

The House believes that the Joint Committee on the Judiciary is uniquely equipped to navigate the legal challenges brought on by SCOTUS decisions, just as it did during our initial response to Bruen and the overturning of Roe. We remain disappointed that the Senate delayed our intended review of this gun violence legislation by insisting on its referral to the Public Safety Committee, despite the fact that just last year, the Senate insisted that a different late-filed bill proposing changes to our gun laws be referred to Judiciary instead of Public Safety. Regardless, you have my word that we will spend the ensuing weeks working with you to address concerns and questions you and your constituents may have about the proposed legislation.

As the House continues its efforts over August, we will work with the Membership, as well as with constituents, advocates and legal experts to ensure that our proposal will make Massachusetts safer, while also standing the test of time.

Sincerely –
Ron Mariano
House Speaker
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quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
I'm here for ~20ish years at least, because life is more than guns.

Well it is understandable of a priority to family vs simple owning guns the fight is much more complicated to this as an either/or statement.
Everyone has to draw that line in the sand of freedom vs security for themselves.