quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Hey, knock yourself out. But you might want to read up on Michigan law first, to avoid getting laughed at...

Basically, that cop is a "peace officer". And a peace officer cannot impersonate a peace officer, because he actually is a peace officer. (I mean, obviously...)

So a cop driving in a patrol car with subdued decals isn't doing anything that's prohibited in the Michigan law against impersonating an officer.


It's one thing to think that it's a shitty practice that you believe should be discontinued. You might find a Judge that agrees with you on that.

It's a whole 'nother thing to bring up trying to pursue bogus charges, especially if you don't have any understanding of what "impersonating a police officer" entails by law.

That's the cool thing about laws... You can look them up for free, and read them, and do research. Nowadays, you don't even have to leave your house or buy a book to do it.

It seems you missed the point, for Traffic Enforcement a Police Officer should be driving a Vehicle clearly identified as a Police Vehicle. Ambush cars or tactics really aren't necessary. In addition in many cases it can put the Cop into a more dangerous situation. Standing on the side of aroad in a well makred car is risky enough, in a slealth car situation the risk of getting run over goes up.

Heck, if a municipality needs additional funding all they have to do is start pulling over oblivious texters and citing them for Reckless Driving. I can assure you that there is an unlimited supply of them who cannot maintain adequate lane control and need to be pulled over. BTW, I have a 5 mile drive to work and encounter at least 10 to 15 texting driver each drive.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
It seems you missed the point

No, I got your point about how you didn't think traffic enforcement with a less than fully decaled vehicle was right.

I was merely making the specific point that your stated plan to accuse a police officer of "impersonating a police officer" was asinine.

CT had legit unmarked stuff back when I was down there for school in 03-04. Headed back from class one day in the right lane a badass looking Camaro in the middle lane pulls along side. Sounds mean, you could see a rollcage inside and then another kid from class blows by it. Car lights up and takes off. If memory serves SLP made a handful of LE cars back then. Also saw some other generic sedans on the road with no obvious signs of being police cars.

 
Even little old Wickenburg has one:
 

When I went to Oahu to visit my stepdaughter, I was astonished by the fact that every police car had to be marked, clearly. If on duty, they had blinking blue lights. You could literally see them from a mile away.

My guess is that they don’t have a lot of citation revenue there. Might explain why in a climate that never gets hot, and never freezes, they have the shittiest roads I have ever driven.

They have them in Illinois but they are usually black F-150's. I was cruising down the highway in my Challenger early on a Saturday morning and no one was around. One of these came screaming up behind me in the slow lane and got right on my ass and stayed there for about 2 miles. I know exactly the reaction he was wanting to get out of me and luckily I have seen that move before so I didn't bite. I'm normally always on the cops side but that was a b.s. move in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
There are plenty of "visible signs of law and order." They're often shot at, too.

Obey traffic laws and it doesn't matter, does it?

Are you suggesting that using these patrol cars with subdued decals for traffic enforcement is a matter of LEO safety?

Also, is this where we segue into artificially low speed limits and their use for revenue generation?

Well if that pisses you off , you wouldn't like what our Chief of Police drives . It's a dark gray Silverado with the ghost decals . It even has a winch on the front . Some things I can't explain ...

Traffic laws aren’t just supposed to affect dummies. Many offenders are so devious that they look to see if there’s a cop around first, and some people think unmarked cars create a risk of criminals impersonating police. Slick-tops and subdued emblems are just an attempt address these issues.

My favorite was back when we had a cab. NYC taxis used to be almost all converted surplus police cars, so we decked out one of our cruisers as a perfect nondescript yellow medallion cab complete with roof light and rates on doors. The partition added to the correctness vs being a giveaway. It was the only unmarked car I felt safe driving because NY cabbies are expected to pull crazy maneuvers so people give them wide berth whereas the regular unmarked cars seemed magnetic by comparison.

Who needed radar? Pace was the way to go. A lot of them wanted to race and the phrase “Not Fair!” was pretty much a given, in one language or another.

As others have said this works well for locals. Out of town folks don’t have a chance. A small municipal department near me has nearly all of their vehicles blacked out. The locals all know and obey the speed limit. The nonlocals subsequently make generous cash donations to the town. I will say the department does a lot of good work on other fronts though. I enjoy their Facebook posts of recent arrests.

How about just don’t violate any traffic laws? Then you don’t have to worry about “ghost police cars”. If you do get pulled over and ticketed for a legitimate violation, be accountable, accept the punishment and move on. I don’t understand why it matters what car they pull you over in. If you were speeding, you were speeding. Be a man and pay the fine. Blaming it on an unmarked car is a deflection of accountability. I’ve had my share of tickets and earned them all. I didn’t bitch because I got pulled over by an unmarked car.

quote:

Originally posted by ChasinTails:
How about just don’t violate any traffic laws? Then you don’t have to worry about “ghost police cars”. If you do get pulled over and ticketed for a legitimate violation, be accountable, accept the punishment and move on. I don’t understand why it matters what car they pull you over in. If you were speeding, you were speeding. Be a man and pay the fine. Blaming it on an unmarked car is a deflection of accountability. I’ve had my share of tickets and earned them all. I didn’t bitch because I got pulled over by an unmarked car.

I'm in my 50's and never had a ticket. Can I still be concerned? My secondary is a 1000RR that does close to 180mph. I've been pulled over for no other reason than the Deputy entering my plate wrong in which case I still had to follow all laws as if I had been committing a moving violation. As in, I still had to show all papers and be subject to an informal interview as we shot the shit about anything but why I was still being held on the side of the road.
"Don't violate traffic laws" means shit. You can still get pulled over. That's a huge fallacy.

I drive one of these most of the time. I like it. I preferred the unmarked car I drove for a few years previously. I work nights and spend a lot of time hunting drunk drivers.

Effective traffic enforcement can include a variety of tactics including lower profile and unmarked cars. I see a lot of stuff happen in front of me that simply would not if I was in a marked car.

There is ZERO portion of my job that has anything to do with "revenue."

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
 
Even little old Wickenburg has one:

I'll grant you it's been a few years since I've driven through Wickenburg (a dear friend of ours lives there - it wasn't a wrong turn), but when the hell did you get a traffic light?



-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
I'll grant you it's been a few years since I've driven through Wickenburg (a dear friend of ours lives there - it wasn't a wrong turn), but when the hell did you get a traffic light?

It must have been a few years, because we have 4 now. If you're just driving through, you are likely to encounter only one, maybe two, since the bypass was completed. The other two (including the one pictured at the Safeway) are in the west end, not normally encountered by through drivers. The pictured cruiser was waiting to block off the traffic light intersection for some joggers or bicyclers coming through town.

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

when the hell did you get a traffic light?

They even have two gas stations now.

Of course, they share the same pump.

The flow of traffic around Phoenix is general 10-15mph over the limit. Go the limit and you are the one creating the danger. As long as the cops can just about pull over anyone and have a technically legit speeder, I run a detector and just make sure I'm never the fastest one on the road.

This guy was only exceeding the speed limit by 100 mph the other day:https://www.wxyz.com/news/msp-arrest-driving-doing-155-mph-on-lodge-freeway-near-8-mile

[/QUOTE]
I'm in my 50's and never had a ticket. Can I still be concerned? My secondary is a 1000RR that does close to 180mph. I've been pulled over for no other reason than the Deputy entering my plate wrong in which case I still had to follow all laws as if I had been committing a moving violation. As in, I still had to show all papers and be subject to an informal interview as we shot the shit about anything but why I was still being held on the side of the road.
"Don't violate traffic laws" means shit. You can still get pulled over. That's a huge fallacy.[/QUOTE]
Did you get a ticket? Did it ruin your day? The officer fat fingered your plate while entering into their computerand made a mistake. It happens. I’ve never been pulled over when I wasn’t doing anything wrong. And if I were pulled over in that situation, it wouldn’t ruin my day.

In Maine, 90% of the State Police vehicles are the Explorer based ones. I'd wager that at least half of them are unmarked with concealed lights and hidden antennas. Tinted windows so you cannot see the cages, and they even have standard registration plates that cover the "State Police" plates.

I had a discussion with a State Trooper about this and he was defending the overuse of unmarked vehicles.

I said that my wife was uncomfortable with pulling over for an unmarked vehicle, and that she would put on her hazards, call 911, but keep driving to the local fire station or 24 hour gas station (gotta love rural living).

His response? "Does she want a PIT, cause that's how you get PIT"...

I lost all respect for the guy in that moment, called him out for the douche he was, and told him that I really hoped he did that to someone some day, just so I could be there at his misuse of force hearing to relay this conversation.