So when did it become socially acceptable for senior citizens to have horribly misbehaved little dogs. Worse yet, when did it become cute for this to happen?

So out at the north overlook of Denali today. I’m sitting on a bench swapping lenses on my camera, I’ve got Bandit (he's an 82lb. Karelian Bear Dog/German Shepherd mix) on short lease in a sit/stay next to me. he's chillin', has his water bowl and bottle. Along comes the FOP (fuckin’ old person) and I do mean that in the most derogatory sense of the word. The standard for old in this case is he was probably here waiting for the Mayflower when it landed. He’s got two Cavalier King Charles Spaniels one that he is carrying under his arm and the other on a retractable leash and it’s totally out of control. He’s walking across the viewpoint and his out of control furry spawn of Satan is making a beeline for Bandit barking and growling all the way. I made direct eye contact with his and firmly said, “Call your dog!”

Nope, nothing, doesn’t even register, he’s more lost than Joe Biden exiting Marine One on the south lawn of the White House. Satan’s spawn is picking up speed, Bandit lets out a warning bark and it’s escalating quickly. I yell, “CALL YOUR DOG!” Still no response from the FOP.

Ditch my lens and camera, stand up and pull up on Bandit’s leash with both hands and Satan’s spawn runs underneath him, knocking over his water bowl and bottle. Bandit yelps as I’m now pulling his front paws off the ground and he’s got a pinch collar on. Satan’s spawn runs underneath him and starts nipping at his back legs and underside. I’m beyond pissed and yell, “CALL YOUR GOD DAMN DOG BEFORE I FUCKING KICK IT!”

Get a really confused look from the FOP and he tries to pull Satan’s spawn back in, but he hasn’t set the clutch on the retractable leash. Might as well be trying to reel in a 1,000lb Marlin on a 4lb. fly rod. I grabbed Satan’s spawn by the handle on the back of his harness and threw him harder than I’ve ever thrown a 16lb. bowling ball trying to pick up a 7-10 split.

The FOP gathers him up and puts him under his other arm. No, “I’m sorry” or apology offered, he tries to get in my face and pull off a, “Get off my lawn” moment and says, “For such a big dog yours makes some really girlie noises!”

“Yeah, well what kind of noises would you make if I let him off the leash to bite you in the dick like your little spawn of Satan just did to him? Get your damn dog under control!”

Nope, nothing no response, just took a couple of steps back with the same dumb look on his face. He turns around and shuffles back the direction he came in. Along the way stopping to talk with other groups of people and Satan’s spawn is getting his ears scratched and his head petted and told what a brave little dog he was standing up to that big mean dog.

Really? WTF? Why is this seen as cute?

My parents were FOP's. Lived to the good old age of 98 and 100. They never meant harm to anyone.
I'll be an FOP soon. That's all I've got.

I have a 3yo Malinios/Dutch Shepard and she is a bit of an asshole and total Alpha dog. We have done a lot of training is she is very well behaved in public. Twice she has had dogs charge her once was in HD where the lady lost the leash. Fortunately I was able to grab the charging dog by the leash while mine was in a down on a stack of mulch mostly out of harms way.

Last week we were in a local dog boutique that has a groomer inside of it. I was looking for a specific toy. They didn’t have it but I bought a tennis ball for her. Typically I will put her in a down between my feet while I conduct business. This old lady with two little dogs on retractable leashes comes out of the groomers. Instantly they spot the “Gremlin” and become two dervishes on the end of the leashes. The old lady was totally oblivious to what almost happened to her dogs. Kiki held her down only because the leashes were about 10” two short to reach her. The owner was just babbling away with no idea what the fuck her dogs were about to stir up. I snapped at her and she looked shocked that someone didn’t appreciate her little dogs or their behavior. The absolute lack of situational awareness and typical zero training of older people and little dogs makes me crazy. I’m 62 and wholly shit the entitlement of these people shocks me.

You were nicer to Satan's Spawn than I would have been. And I am a dog lover. I've done everything possible to maneuver away from aggressive dogs approaching my dog, but if they made contact with mine, I didn't restrain mine. I tried to remove the attacking dogs before they got hurt.

If the owner is negligent, as in your event, he isn't going to learn to control his dog, nor is he going to teach his dog. Your dog may have to do the teaching directly. The offending dog may thus not harm a child or other animal in the future.

Or you could have given Bandit the release command and let the dogs work it out while you finished your lens swap. You had him on a short lease so the CKCS would have had a chance to get back out of range quickly. Most of these type of encounters I've seen, mostly at the dog park, ends up with one dog figuring out pretty quickly that they made a mistake and they run off with no real injuries. Its how they behave in a pack.

CKCS are one of my favorite small breeds but they can learn manner as well as any other breed. I can’t stand dog owners who don’t give their dogs at least the basic training.

quote:

Yeah, well what kind of noises would you make if I let him off the leash to bite you in the dick like your little spawn of Satan just did to him?

You always have such a way with words .

That would have seriously pissed me off. My dog is not entirely obedient to voice commands, and I'm well aware of this so I keep him on a short leash and don't let him harass other people or animals. He's a big doofus and just wants to play with everybody and everything, but I'm not so inconsiderate or irresponsible to just let him do it without an explicit invitation.

It's not just old people.

Once the shift occured from dogs being pets to dogs being fur-babies, like my kids, and other bullshit there's no appetite for the consistent discipline that's required to have a well behaved animal.

Have you seen people's KIDS and how many of them are allowed to behave? It's all the same, IMHO.

Dogs are here for our enjoyment and entertainment, not the other way around, at least not primarily. Some very dear friends of ours, from whom we got a lab puppy 33 years ago and helped train us on how to train a dog, have shifted completely, almost to the extreme of the FOP. It's a mystery, and has created some tension when they want to visit and bring their hellion in tow.

quote:

Originally posted by Schmelby:
My parents were FOP's. Lived to the good old age of 98 and 100. They never meant harm to anyone.
I'll be an FOP soon. That's all I've got.

The plot here may have evaded you.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Yeah, well what kind of noises would you make if I let him off the leash to bite you in the dick like your little spawn of Satan just did to him?

You always have such a way with words .

That would have seriously pissed me off. My dog is not entirely obedient to voice commands, and I'm well aware of this so I keep him on a short leash and don't let him harass other people or animals. He's a big doofus and just wants to play with everybody and everything, but I'm not so inconsiderate or irresponsible to just let him do it without an explicit invitation.

My Border/Dalmatian [we think] is fairly obedient, but when another dog is around, she wants to play & will nearly strangle herself trying to make a new friend.
Usually, if I can spot the other dog first, I can preempt her to relax.

I like dogs as much as anybody, but I'm not prepared to take shit from them or their owners. If the dog(s) just bark at me, OK, but any aggressive action will be dealt with appropriately.

I’ve had my Mal get antagonized by two little rat ass dogs at the park while doing our drills. Retractable leashes on both (like Valpo) above. As a trainer myself (Obedience, Tracking, Protection, IE Schutzhund), well all the trainers I know, NOBODY, uses a fucking retractable lead. Fixed lead, period. If you need to take up slack, you do it manually. Anyway, I’m doing some ball and bite work on the rope. And this senior citizen with his rat dogs were just standing, watching, in awe. His rats were barking like mad, lunging, and my Mal knows what is what, and is trained to stay calm. Human, with a weapon, best of luck to you. One of the rats decided it would take the full length of that bullshit retractable leash. My Mal, had enough of it. It was interrupting her fun time (training), and her job, she had enough, calmly went right in front of the rat, and nipped it right in the ribs. Not enough to draw blood or hurt the little dog, just enough to say look dude, I can kill you easily, STFU, and get the f back. Oh the senior citizen idiot started his verbal lashing at me, and how my dog bit his dog. She did nothing of the kind. A trained working K9, knows the difference and she nipped that little shit. And they will likely go for the ribs like they do when they are puppies, to say ENOUGH with the bullshit. While I was getting chewed out, my girl calmly walked back to me, and laid down, waiting for this shit to end so we could get back to work.

I could through dozens of stories like this. Most people who own dogs should not own them. Nobody has any use for an untrained animal in public. It’s why I absolutely detest dog parks. People are just fucking stupid.

Unfortunately, my dad is one of these senior citizens with a dog like that.

She's not a little yappie dog, but a few years back he got a Red Lab puppy, and then never socialized her. He was working from home before he retired last year, and before she passed my mom was permanently quarantined due to a compromised immune system. So he basically never left the house except for groceries and doctor visits, and certainly never took the dog anywhere or let her be around anyone else.

As a result, the dog absolutely loves him, but is a complete asshole to anyone else and especially to any other dogs.

He's now having to spend quite a bit of time, money, and effort with a dog trainer to try to "fix" his unsocialized middle-aged dog, with little to show for it after 6+ months of work now. I can still hardly even visit unless he keeps her put away in a side room, and I definitely can't bring my own well-socialized, well-behaved, and well-trained dog.


So I suspect lack of exposure/lack of socialization is a big contributing factor to this phenomenon you noted. Old folks are more likely to be homebodies, so their dogs are more likely to be unsocialized.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Yeah, well what kind of noises would you make if I let him off the leash to bite you in the dick like your little spawn of Satan just did to him?

You always have such a way with words .
.

I remember the "Old Fart On Campus" rants and raves the OP did back when I first joined SigForum.

Very entertaining. He's not lost a bit of his talent.
.

quote:

Originally posted by Schmelby:
My parents were FOP's. Lived to the good old age of 98 and 100. They never meant harm to anyone.
I'll be an FOP soon. That's all I've got.

I believe what Z is trying to note is, there are Old People and then there are FOPs.

Like I said, I just don’t get it, especially people thinking it’s cute. Maybe they think that just because it’s little it’s harmless.

We adopted an Australian Cattle Dog at 8 months old that had been owned by an elderly couple. They had absolutely no control over her and became afraid of her. She was a high energy dog and they became afraid of falling due to her rowdiness. We spent an afternoon with her at an adoption event in Flagstaff. Had our Akita with us to make sure that the two got along. Walked her all over Flagstaff, had lunch at an outdoor cafe and she was an absolute angel. Got her home and she turned into Cujita. Decided it was her home and became hyper protective of it and the immediate family. Initially we had to leash her whenever we had friends and family at the house. It took a lot of work socializing that little spastic sack of spots but she was worth it, turned out to be one of the best dogs I’ve ever had in my life.

It would’ve been tempting to release Bandit, but I don’t think it would’ve ended well for the Spaniel. He’s part Karelian Bear Dog, a very primitive bred with a purpose of hunting bears. He’s bit a moose in the nose, treed a black bear in my backyard and scared another one out of my driveway. I recognize this and handle him appropriately.

It’s not the dog, it’s the owners.

Pic of the Bandit for reference.

quote:

It would’ve been tempting to release Bandit, but I don’t think it would’ve ended well for the Spaniel.

I just want to be clear, when I said release, I meant from the sit/stay, not off the short lease.
I've enjoyed your posts about Bandit and looked up the breed when you first posted about getting him.

"It’s not the dog, it’s the owners."

Exactly! My kid sister (76) rescues Great Pyrs and has trained every one to behave well enough to visit hospitals, schools, and nursing homes. She also does dog (people) training for our local pet club and her biggest peeve is that the owners never follow up with home training. Once when she mentioned that she uses a Dremel tool to do Zaindari's nails, one of the students said, 'He lets you do that?' Her response was, "Lets?"

Zain knows who's the boss in his pack!