With the internet age, you no longer have to waste much time going from dealer to dealer like you did years ago searching for a car to your specific liking. Sitting in the comfort of home, with few clicks of the mouse, you can narrow down exactly a few choices, go to the dealer, check them out, test drive, then make the purchase decision. And most dealers these days include the Carfax Report with every vehicle they sell. You don't even have to pay for it anymore.

But, the thing that never changes is, the car salesmen are just as slimy as ever. So, we went to buy another car (used) yesterday. The printout already tells you the exact cash amount to pay (TT&L included). When the salesman printed out the amount, it was $1500 more. I was saying, WTH is this? Looking over the breakdown of the price, the asshole took the liberty of adding a bunch of stuff (extended coverage for the leather seats, tinted windows, and wheel locks) totaling to almost $1500 extra. Told him it's ridiculous, because the seats are already old and crackly, the windows are already tinted, and the wheel locks are already on. Can't charge me extra shit like that. I was pissed and was ready to get up and walk out. Shithead then pulled the typical "Let me talk to my manager" bullshit. Came back a couple of minutes later and took off the $1500.

The retail automotive industry is an industry whose business model is based on preying upon the ignorance of its customers.

Fortunately for your, 12131, you knew this and educated yourself in order to counter it.

Sadly many people don't, and end up getting burned. $1,500 is pretty light considering other stories of read. People paying $10-20K in "market adjustment" for popular models that are in short supply because they just have to have it. I've read about $10K market adjustments on Toyota Corollas.

The fact that there were 15-18 million less vehicles produced from 2020-2022 has made this problem even worse. Those cars would have been hitting the market now as low mileage used cars that those who claim to be "experts" state, without qualification, are a better value than new.

I've been fortunate in my last few purchases that they don't have to do the 'talk to the manager' shtick. I know what I want to pay & how they make that work is up to them.
Give me an OTD number that I want & let's move on. If BS fees & some finagled numbers in the paperwork are how you get to it, I really don't care.

I go in with outside finance already lined up, just need a drive out number.

I might sound like an old guy but I remember back in 2000-2005 when you could buy a car you could actually trust to drive for $1,000. Damn I miss those days.

Standard operating procedure.
My exwife.traded in a five year old Honda accord for a new CRV.
They offered her two thousand dollars for the Accord, in perfect shape, she took it.

I bought a brand new Dodge Magnum when they were first released back in the fall of 2004. The dealer's window sticker included a "Florida package" which was window tint of the passenger and driver windows, since the rest were tinted from the factory. And wheel locks. It was $750.

As I sat down to start negotiations, I said, "That window tint has a retail price of about $50. The wheel locks about $30. As a dealer those items cost you significantly less. So we are going to take off the $750 and then start negotiations from there."

They had no argument for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
The retail automotive industry is an industry whose business model is based on preying upon the ignorance of its customers.

I wouldn't necessarily say that ~ is not based on that although ignorance in the buyer does definitely favor the the seller.
An educated consumer/buyer is benefited in the transaction process regardless of the product.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: smschulz,

I don't think covid did car buyers any favors because it brought out the worst in the dealerships.

I totaled the wife's SUV in Oct. 2021 and had to shop for a replacement in the midst of covid.

I found what we were looking for at one dealership about an hour away from us. So, before driving over there, I called to ensure the vehicle was still available. The slimy salesman tells me it's still there and that he'll have it waiting for us. Great, I said, we're on our way.

We drive to the dealership and, SURPRISE!, we're told that the vehicle was sold and gone in the hour between getting off the phone and our arrival. Sure.

Of course, slimy salesguy "just happens" to have a similar vehicle available; it's just a few years newer than what we were looking for, is a higher trim level than what we were looking for, and costs several thousand more than we were looking to spend.

We take it for a test drive. It's nice, but we're not going to go over our budget, so we say 'no thanks'. We start heading for our car and the slimy salesguy has the nerve to say "Thanks for wasting my time".

Before I go to a dealership I have my financing pre-approved at my credit union. I refuse to engage in the tag team (salesman, sales manager, finance manager) game, no endless negotiations, all I want is a final figure, out-the-door, no BS, then they need to be ready to hear me say yes or no. I'm always ready to walk out the door at any time they try to start the dance.

With nine grandchildren (13 to 35) I seldom feel the need to trade in anything. My wife drives 6,000 to 7,000 miles per year so a new car will last her 9 or 10 years without difficulty. I drive 10,000 to 12,000 so I can easily get 9 or 10 years out of a new truck. At that point the used vehicle really owes me nothing, is still a relatively low-mileage one-owner vehicle with several more years of use remaining, and I feel better about giving it to a young adult I love than taking the beating a dealer wants to give me.

Even if I were planning on a trade-in I would certainly have the NADA and Kelley Blue Book data on my trade value before the dealer discussion started.

Car dealers are calculating, predatory critters but they are not stupid. They know that only about one in three buyers who say "Yes" will qualify for the financing and actually close the deal. When a potential buyer with cash or pre-approved financing and a FICO score of ~800 or so shows up the last thing they want to see is that customer's back going out the door. They know that they will only get one shot so they usually try to make it a really good one.

You want to see really simple, go buy a Tesla. You go to the website and pick a model, there are only 4 to choose from, pick a trim level, there are only 2, pick an exterior color, there are only 5, pick an interior color, there are only 3, pick your wheels, there are only 2 choices. Pick your preferred pickup location, enter your personal data, enter $250 deposit and hit buy button.

Load the Tesla app on your phone and you will get step by step instructions on the remaining process including trade in if desired, financing if desired, and Tesla insurance if desired. When the car is available you will go back on the app to pick a delivery time and date.

Up to this point you have spoken to not a single person.

You show up to your pickup time/location. Your car is sitting out front detailed with a sign with your name in the windshield. If you want you can go in and get a delivery host to help you with deliver, otherwise you can use your phone to unlock the car. Your keycards are already inside. You "accept delivery" on your phone app and off you go. No add-ons, no uncharges, no surprise fees, no negotiations.

Later if you decide you want extended warranty, any car accessories etc they are all available from the app at a fixed no negation price. Notably they don't even offer paint protection, seat protection, windshield etching, window tinting, etc etc.

All your sales documents, warrenty documents are available on the app.

If you need to schedule any service you use your app.

If you need emergency 24/7 roadside service you use your app.

If you want to locate your car, see how much charge you have left, turn on climate control, look at any of the interior or exterior cameras in real time you use your app.

If someone even touches your car while you are gone you get a notification and you can see real time video on the app and the car stores the incident on a thumb drive.

If you want to warn someone to get away from the car you can speak remotely via the app.

And maybe best of all, you can make your car make farting sounds remotely via the app.

It is a brave new world in auto purchasing.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:


But, the thing that never changes is, the car salesmen are just as slimy as ever.

That's why I think the best thing now compared to 30 years ago is the fixed-price retail model in car shopping. None of this silliness you just described. Car costs $XYZ. If you like it, you buy it, if not you go elsewhere. Just like a loaf of bread or a pair of pants.

This haggling and negotiating and game-playing "let me go check with my manager" bullshit needs to go away forever IMO.

I'm old enough to remember actually dealing with the salesman. I meaning dealing as in Lyle knew *everything* about the vehicle I was interested in. It was he who valued the trade and he who I negotiated the price with. After handing Lyle the check (yes he did the paperwork too) he made clear that I talk to him if I ever had issue with the car itself or the dealership. One time I did go to him when we were scheduled to go away for the weekend but it was going to be over a week before they could tune it up and replace the tail pipe. He walked me over to one of the mechanics and asked "after finishing whet you're working on here would you work this young man's car in for me"? The mechanic said "sure it'll be another hour or so and I'll take care of his for you."
No sales manager, service manager, closing room, fees of any kind...... those days are long gone.

"Q" the question coming from the hoard of inquireing minds want to know....Did you buy that car or leave still looking???..... drill sgt.

quote:

Car dealers are calculating, predatory critters but they are not stupid. They know that only about one in three buyers who say "Yes" will qualify for the financing and actually close the deal. When a potential buyer with cash or pre-approved financing and a FICO score of ~800 or so shows up the last thing they want to see is that customer's back going out the door. They know that they will only get one shot so they usually try to make it a really good one.

Auto Dealers get kickbacks of a % from banks & other credit institutions when they write the paper. This kickback is included in their calculations. When a buyer pays cash or already has financing they will usually pay more for the vehicle. It is best to settle on a price then tell the salesman you have decided to pay cash. Also if a buyer accepts the dealership financing they may be able to refinance with no penalty in the next few days.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:


But, the thing that never changes is, the car salesmen are just as slimy as ever.

That's why I think the best thing now compared to 30 years ago is the fixed-price retail model in car shopping. None of this silliness you just described. Car costs $XYZ. If you like it, you buy it, if not you go elsewhere. Just like a loaf of bread or a pair of pants.

This haggling and negotiating and game-playing "let me go check with my manager" bullshit needs to go away forever IMO.

Thing is, this situation was exactly that. The no haggling cash price (TT&L included) to be paid is listed plain as day, and I brought it with me. But the asshole just sneaked the supposed "extras" in and printed out the total without even telling me, acting like they were a requirement, hoping I was just going to ok it.

quote:

Originally posted by drill sgt:
"Q" the question coming from the hoard of inquireing minds want to know....Did you buy that car or leave still looking???..... drill sgt.

Sgt, we did. Cash paid. This is going to be for Mrs Q.

When I was recently shopping for a car I actually found the sales people far less 'slimy' than what I've been accustomed/pre-programmed to seeing. The guys at Lexus were fantastic; absolutely no pressure, no surprises, very attentive. The Toyota store was more on the uncaring side, mostly because they had very few new cars to sell and what they did have they knew that those would move even if I wouldn't be the one buying.

But it was the guys at the Ford store that were the ones that really blew away all my preconceptions of scummy car salesmen and sales managers, though I suspect that they were just as motivated in me trading in my wife's Mazda CX-50 that I arrived as part of the deal for that oh-so tempting S550 Mustang GT I was interested in. The guys were attentive, more than willing to knock off all of the self-serving add-ons that the dealership management had previously added on when the car first entered their inventory, and negotiate from there. And they were more than happy to listen to any reasonable counteroffer.

But in the end it was a no-sale; I simply couldn't come to grips with the single digit instant fuel economy numbers the GT's computer was displaying. It's one thing if a gallon of gas were 1/4 of the price that it is, but after a summer of the cheap 87 stuff hovering around $5 a gallon at Costco no less...this ain't gonna happen. My 993 is already the designated gas guzzler in our cadre of cars at 13MPG on a good day; didn't need another that's even worse.

But I really DID like how that 'Stang intimidated the heck out of other drivers... :devil smile:

Back in the Spring of 2022 my wife wanted a new 4Runner. Her 4Runner at the time was a 99 with 225,000 miles on it. She had it for 19 years. We found an Auto Nation dealer that had one on the lot. My wife called and spoke with a sales dude. Guy said what about your trade in. I told her they weren't interested in a 23 year old 4Runner, but she gave him the info anyway.

The 4Runner had a check engine light on. I knew it was a knock sensor, but it was a PITA to replace and I was putting it off. They took the 4Runner into the shop and told me it needed an engine, which would cost $5,000. They said the car was worth $5,500, so we should just give it to them and they will credit us the $500. I told him it didn't need an engine, it needed the sensor replaced.

They flat out refused to sell us a new 4Runner without a trade in. I'm a bit loud when I talk and I told him I was not giving him my $6,000 car for free. We were going back and forth, and making a scene in the crowded showroom. He said we're not selling you a car with out a trade in. We walked.

We drove to a different Toyota dealer and had the best experience I have ever had. They had 5 4Runners coming in on a boat from Japan. Should be ready in a few weeks. My wife picked the silver one. No pressure for extra shit, financing, etc... We did have to pay sticker, which was like $42k, but you don't have much choice on a 4Runner, especially in Colorado.

I ordered both knock sensors from the dealer and replaced them myself. Took me about 8 hours. Ordered the parts for the timing belt replacement and a full tune up. That also took me about 8 hours over a weekend. Sold it to the first person to call about it, $8,000, paid in cash.

Slime-ball dealer tried to steal a car from me.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:

And maybe best of all, you can make your car make farting sounds remotely via the app.

I thought that perhaps you were joking about this, and have found that you are, in fact, not. That’s hilarious! My son-in-law wants a Tesla and I’ve not heard him mention this feature. I have updated him haha!

True first hand (me) story. Last month we took a trip to Pensacola to celebrate my youngest 21st birthday with the rest of the family. Pileup on I10 so I cut off the interstate, grab some gas since we were now off-roading it so to speak. Family goes into the gas and sip while I’m fueling the car. Turns out this gas station has a row of Tesla Superchargers.

As I’m fueling my car this lady is walking from her Tesla to the store. I was curious so I asked a very simple question. “How long does it take to fill that up?” She tells me the answer, I think she said 30 minutes to get to 80% or something like that. The interesting part is what happened next. She then proceeds to tell me, unsolicited, how this was the worst road trip she had ever taken. She gave the reasons, I don’t recall them precisely, and ends her rant by saying “I wish I had brought my truck instead”.

You couldn’t give me a pure EV for free (ok I would take it but I would sell it).

You'll have to listen carefully to the audio.
This was a real dealership and a real tv pitchman, but this commercial was never actually aired. Gee I wonder why.