quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer:
I'll buy them, 10 cent to the dollar.

quote:

Originally posted by xwesler:
I'll donate and support, but it will be a cold day in hell before I give up my lattes.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
Well put Grumpy.
I'm gonna add a little story here but I'm not trying to hijack your thread Grumpy.
Yesterday was the "March for Your Lives" protest and my daughter and a few friends went to Cleveland to join in.
This had me torn more than a little. I taught my daughter how to shoot about 4-5 years ago and she had fun while learning. She also turned into a decent pistol shooter with the Rutgers I bought to train her with.
So we had a talk yesterday morning about her going to this protest. Could I have put my proverbial foot down and told her that she wasn't going? Yes but she's 18 and old enough to do things on her own.
Her big thing is getting the age limit raised to 21 to legally buy a rifle. Gun laws not gun bans as she put it.
I knew this could get heated and rather than fly off into a hateful rant, I sat down with her.
She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age.
I talked about the right to free speech because that's what she was doing when she was going to the protest. Expressing her opinion. I will never dampen or silence anyone's right to free speech. It may be filled with hate, it may be filled with racism or it may go against everything I hold valuable to myself. You have that right and it was paid for in blood as most if the other rights were also. It's still paid for in blood, make no mistake.
So she went to Cleveland.
Back to your point Grumpy. I will never whine nor cower. I support the NRA with my dues even though I scratch my head sometimes watching them.
I support anyone who supports the Constitution of the United States. The whole thing, not just the 2nd amendment.
If/when the time comes for confiscation, it will not be pleasant from my end.
Stand up, get involved with your representatives or whatever you can do or just give up.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
Well put Grumpy.
I'm gonna add a little story here but I'm not trying to hijack your thread Grumpy.
Yesterday was the "March for Your Lives" protest and my daughter and a few friends went to Cleveland to join in.
This had me torn more than a little. I taught my daughter how to shoot about 4-5 years ago and she had fun while learning. She also turned into a decent pistol shooter with the Rutgers I bought to train her with.
So we had a talk yesterday morning about her going to this protest. Could I have put my proverbial foot down and told her that she wasn't going? Yes but she's 18 and old enough to do things on her own.
Her big thing is getting the age limit raised to 21 to legally buy a rifle. Gun laws not gun bans as she put it.
I knew this could get heated and rather than fly off into a hateful rant, I sat down with her.
She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age.
I talked about the right to free speech because that's what she was doing when she was going to the protest. Expressing her opinion. I will never dampen or silence anyone's right to free speech. It may be filled with hate, it may be filled with racism or it may go against everything I hold valuable to myself. You have that right and it was paid for in blood as most if the other rights were also. It's still paid for in blood, make no mistake.
So she went to Cleveland.
Back to your point Grumpy. I will never whine nor cower. I support the NRA with my dues even though I scratch my head sometimes watching them.
I support anyone who supports the Constitution of the United States. The whole thing, not just the 2nd amendment.
If/when the time comes for confiscation, it will not be pleasant from my end.
Stand up, get involved with your representatives or whatever you can do or just give up.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
Well put Grumpy.
I'm gonna add a little story here but I'm not trying to hijack your thread Grumpy.
Yesterday was the "March for Your Lives" protest and my daughter and a few friends went to Cleveland to join in.
This had me torn more than a little. I taught my daughter how to shoot about 4-5 years ago and she had fun while learning. She also turned into a decent pistol shooter with the Rutgers I bought to train her with.
So we had a talk yesterday morning about her going to this protest. Could I have put my proverbial foot down and told her that she wasn't going? Yes but she's 18 and old enough to do things on her own.
Her big thing is getting the age limit raised to 21 to legally buy a rifle. Gun laws not gun bans as she put it.
I knew this could get heated and rather than fly off into a hateful rant, I sat down with her.
She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age.
I talked about the right to free speech because that's what she was doing when she was going to the protest. Expressing her opinion. I will never dampen or silence anyone's right to free speech. It may be filled with hate, it may be filled with racism or it may go against everything I hold valuable to myself. You have that right and it was paid for in blood as most if the other rights were also. It's still paid for in blood, make no mistake.
So she went to Cleveland.
Back to your point Grumpy. I will never whine nor cower. I support the NRA with my dues even though I scratch my head sometimes watching them.
I support anyone who supports the Constitution of the United States. The whole thing, not just the 2nd amendment.
If/when the time comes for confiscation, it will not be pleasant from my end.
Stand up, get involved with your representatives or whatever you can do or just give up.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
...She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age
...

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
...She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age
...

Ask her if smart phones should be banned, since texting and driving has killed more people than school shootings. Also ask her if (insert her model of car) should be banned since a drunk driver killed someone with one in (insert distant city).

Make her think harder about the proposed "gun safety" legislation.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
Well put Grumpy.
I'm gonna add a little story here but I'm not trying to hijack your thread Grumpy.
Yesterday was the "March for Your Lives" protest and my daughter and a few friends went to Cleveland to join in.
This had me torn more than a little. I taught my daughter how to shoot about 4-5 years ago and she had fun while learning. She also turned into a decent pistol shooter with the Rutgers I bought to train her with.
So we had a talk yesterday morning about her going to this protest. Could I have put my proverbial foot down and told her that she wasn't going? Yes but she's 18 and old enough to do things on her own.
Her big thing is getting the age limit raised to 21 to legally buy a rifle. Gun laws not gun bans as she put it.
I knew this could get heated and rather than fly off into a hateful rant, I sat down with her.
She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age.
I talked about the right to free speech because that's what she was doing when she was going to the protest. Expressing her opinion. I will never dampen or silence anyone's right to free speech. It may be filled with hate, it may be filled with racism or it may go against everything I hold valuable to myself. You have that right and it was paid for in blood as most if the other rights were also. It's still paid for in blood, make no mistake.
So she went to Cleveland.
Back to your point Grumpy. I will never whine nor cower. I support the NRA with my dues even though I scratch my head sometimes watching them.
I support anyone who supports the Constitution of the United States. The whole thing, not just the 2nd amendment.
If/when the time comes for confiscation, it will not be pleasant from my end.
Stand up, get involved with your representatives or whatever you can do or just give up.

I'm in agreement with your general approach. I would never advocate for or support silencing those who hold a differing opinion than my own. Living in a relatively free country requires a certain amount of tolerance for views opposing our own...

...but it should also encourage a vigorous debate in an effort to establish fact based solutions, rather than forming emotionally based non-solutions, that simply make one "feel good" about the illusion of a solution.

I'm curious, when discussing the issue with your daughter, did you inform her about the history of gun control in the U.S.? (NFA, GCA, FOPA, 1989 import ban, 1994 AW ban...to say nothing of State and Local laws). Any discussion of previous gun control laws should also point out how patently ineffective they were while placing onerous limitations on those law-abiding citizens who have done nothing to warrant the loss of their rights. Gun control laws have incrementally eroded Constitutionally recognized freedoms for decades...an incremental loss of rights that have failed to reduce violence. Your daughter only knows what she knows over her 18 years of life...but the problem of violence, gun related or otherwise, as well as the attempts to reduce them through one series of laws after another have been going on for much longer.

Did you discuss with your daughter the legal age in which a minor becomes a legal adult, and assumes both the full set of Constitutionally recognized rights as well as the responsibilities/ consequences associated with these rights. Drivers Licences, Pilots licenses, professional certifications, the right to purchase tobacco, the right to purchase marijuana, the right to purchase alcohol, the right to enter into legal contracts such as obtaining a Credit Card or buying a home, the legal age to work, the legal age to join the U.S. military etc...

If your daughter supports raising the age to buy a long gun, perhaps you could discuss with her the history of why 18 yr olds were allowed to buy long guns, and perhaps steer the conversation towards raising the age in which a minor becomes an adult from 18 to 21. Raise the age in which a minor can do any of the above to 21.

Would she be in favor of raising the legal age for adults to 21 and prevent anyone younger from, say, entering into a cell phone contract, getting a job, voting or driving?

Perhaps pointing out the irrational approach of those who support new gun control laws. Discussing the failures of the Federal, State, and Local government authorities to enforce laws and public policies already in place to prevent or reduce gun violence...and yet these same gun control supporters are demanding and depending on these unreliable authorities to implement yet further reductions on our rights.

I realize that most of the gun control sycophants are lost to reason, and saturated in emotionalism.

However, from the way you describe your daughter, it sounds like she might be reasonably persuaded to see the patent failure of solving the gun violence issue with more laws.

It is not a gun problem, never has been, and never will be. It is a PEOPLE problem, and needs to be dealt with at the PEOPLE level.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
...She's a smart kid, has a job and is responsible so she understands things better than some her age
...

Ask her if smart phones should be banned, since texting and driving has killed more people than school shootings. Also ask her if (insert her model of car) should be banned since a drunk driver killed someone with one in (insert distant city).

Make her think harder about the proposed "gun safety" legislation.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
I talked to her about drunk driving and how many people are killed per year due to it.
She told me that that doesn't affect her. I told her that it will sooner or later and you'll lose someone you know to it eventually. Cold fact but it's true.
She knows about the whole cell phone thing and only has 2 years driving experience under her belt. I asked her to pay attention next time she drives to work and to look at how many people she sees texting or on their cell phone as they're driving.