So daughter is supposed to be flying up tonight but still sitting on the ground in Phoenix on an Airbus A321 Neo over an hour after their scheduled departure.

First excuse, stated they were overbooked and asked 16 passengers to voluntarily give up their seats.

Second excuse, stated passengers could not use the overhead bins due to the weight and balance of the aircraft.

Third excuse, not enough fuel on board to get to Anchorage, they were calling American’s corporate office in Dallas to dispatch more fuel.

I’m calling bullshit! 2,500 air miles to Anchorage, 3,400 mile range of an A321 Neo, Anchorage is isolated and not a whole lot of options to divert to. Safety requirements and fuel reserves, I can’t imagine gambling with much less than a full fuel load. Also Phoenix is a major hub for American, I can’t imagine that they have to call corporate in Dallas before loading extra fuel.

And to top it all off American’s online flight tracker isn’t working. “The system was unable to process your request, please try again.”

Now it makes a little more sense. All of this is due to the extreme heat in Phoenix today. Still, it’s Phoenix, it’s July, it gets hot…

AA fucked me once on a connection. My first AA flight was late but I was at the gate while they were still boarding. They had already sold my seat. My luggage made the flight but I didn’t.
They bumped me to a flight 3 hours later, and then canceled that flight "due to weather" even though there was no weather between Miami and Jacksonville.
I ended up having to spend the night and fly out the next morning. Fortunately, I was traveling for work and got a hotel for the night. Most of the other people in the same mix spent the night in the terminal.

Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

Sounds like they should have left on time. Take off lighter in the heat, fuel stop in Seattle.

So this is how it goes...

Management sets rules to maximize profits. Some very small percentage of flights have to divert due to not enough fuel due to an "unexpected" problem at the destination. Experienced pilots and dispatchers know that certain setups highly predict a need for more fuel, but the company rules don't allow for that kind of uncontrolled discretion.

Bumping revenue is bad. Very bad. Making a planned refueling stop is pretty bad. It takes more fuel to carry more weight, so carrying unnecessary extra fuel costs some extra fuel burned. A planned fuel stop costs a lot of extra fuel and time. Any of those 3 choices kill any profit that flight may have made.

Company rules say to carry minimum legal fuel plus a very small addition. Normally this is fine. The Captain is not allowed to unilaterally increase the fuel load. He must confer with the dispatcher, who has to justify the increase. If revenue is getting bumped, the dispatcher may be under increased scrutiny from above.

As temperatures rise, payload decreases. An experienced Captain or dispatcher can see that as the next hourly weather report comes out that the temp will be higher and they will have to bump revenue, but it isn't justifiable right now.

The whole process slows down into a cycle of phone calls, re-dispatch with new numbers, delayed boarding, and new weather that changes the numbers. Repeat.

Now the flight is late. Late is late, even by 1 second. Your priority within the company just went to the bottom. They don't want other flights to become late from people working your flight who could be working another flight to get it out on time.

Your flight just became one of the small percentage that management acknowledges will get hosed, but it is in service of maximizing the big complex equation to profits.

I'm typically a morning or evening flyer and I've rarely flown at the peak heat of day. Are these fuel adjustments bumping passengers more likely to happen on afternoon flights in July and August? In other words, when I retire in 18 to 30 months is it a good idea to continue my morning or evening flight routine?

I'm not much on crowds so flying at less busy times of day (e.g. early/mid afternoon) is appealing, but increasing my chance of delays/bumps is unappealing.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

What he said.

They got in late last night/early this morning. Talking with her boyfriend who is also a pilot, he said it was all heat related. Part of the delay was waiting for the sun to go down and cooler temperatures in Phoenix to get off the ground easier. Daughter who’s a pilot wasn’t really into the reasons why, she was just pissed because it was 0200 and she was tired and wanted to go to bed.

By the way, discovered a new app to track flights, Flighty, is was a good alternative since the American Airlines flight tracker wasn’t working last night.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

Except it is one very long drive from Phoenix to Anchorage.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

What he said.

Not fair when you have your own airplane.

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

Except it is one very long drive from Phoenix to Anchorage.

Which is one big reason I ain't going!

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

X2 Paul.

American Airlines pissed me off royally the last time I flew. Kind of planning a trip to Palm Springs area in the next year or two. I’ll take Amtrak or drive before I’ll fly again.

Fly-Sig, thanks for an excellent explanation. The thing that bothers me is that the factors resulting in a delayed departure in this case are all physical and predictable. Temps in Phoenix will be high, density altitude will impact takeoff. All those factors can be calculated and a "window" of reasonability could be established allowing the captain a level of discretion.
I suspect that doesn't happen because some exec is compensated entirely upon "cost savings". Because people do what they are incented to do, hundreds of folks are inconvenienced. Profits are maintained. My logical side understands, my emotional side will always get pissed off.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

Fuck airlines in general. If I can't drive, I ain't going.

What he said.

Not fair when you have your own airplane.

What he said.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:

American Airlines pissed me off royally the last time I flew. Kind of planning a trip to Palm Springs area in the next year or two. I’ll take Amtrak or drive before I’ll fly again.

Time to spare? Go by air.

Imagine that - it's the heat causing the issues. The airlines could never had guessed that could happen in Phoenix in July ?

I'm retired now but I used to fly 2-3 weeks a month, every month for business. Don't miss it at all - especially post-Covid when the entire air travel industry went to hell in a hand basket.

A friend of mine who lives in Phoenix was flying to Chicago last month, with a scheduled evening arrival time. Also American. The flight was delayed on the ground in Phoenix so long that it finally got to O'Hare at 11:30PM and she missed her connection. Same issue as the OP maybe.

On my last flight, from Boise to Minneapolis, when they were prepping the plane they forgot to fill the water tank. Somebody caught it before we boarded and they filled it then. But that messed up the weight and balance and they had to do that over and then get approval for it from someplace down south (Dallas, IIRC?). So we would up sitting on the ramp for another hour and a half after boarding while they did that. This was Delta, not American.

My daughter and soninlaw are taking an Alaskan cruise next month. Told me yesterday on a 7 hour American Airlines flight there will be no food nor screens.

quote:

Originally posted by downeastnc1:
My daughter and soninlaw are taking an Alaskan cruise next month. Told me yesterday on a 7 hour American Airlines flight there will be no food nor screens.

I'm a top tier flier with AA (would rather Delta or Alaska, but I digress) and they got rid of TVs years ago, it's all streamed on your phone. They just got with the times and quit charging for wifi this year, fucking slugs.

Unless you're on a long haul flight or flying a widebody domestically, your daughter and SIL are correct.