I think it’s finally time to give the single finger salute to FCA/Stellantis or whatever their name is this week.

Just spent eighteen hundred to fix the HVAC system on our ‘12 Liberty yesterday, has less than 50k on it. Temperature door failure, to fix it takes a replacement of part of the ducting. And since we were already in there it was suggested (friend owns the shop) that we replace the heater core as if we don’t and it starts to leak the whole job has to be repeated and it was only a hundred and fifty more using all FCA parts as I still get a deal through one of my friends and the friend that owns the shop is okay with. Y supplying the parts, he was a customer when I was in the parts business before retirement.

So, all fixed, spousal person is happy as now she can change the temperature settings. Get home, push the button to lock the doors and arm the intrusion system, no single “beep” of the horn. This is my ‘12 Wrangler now, 141k miles.

Unlock, get inside, hit horn, no sound. Quick review of the owners manual, TWO horn fuses, one left and one right side. Ok, common sense says power must be fed through the relay and then to the individual fuses. Start thinking refer to Jeep forums, all roads lead to the clock spring under the steering wheel. I had a intermittent problem three years ago, the “fix” at the time was to turn toe steering wheel to far “stop”, blow horn, do the same thing to the opposite side” it worked, found that on several Jeep forums.

There “is” a safety campaign that allows a replacement unlimited mileage and time if I remember correctly BUT the specifics condition of the Air Bag warning light MUST be illuminated and guess who’s light ISN’T on……

So I think this is about a five hundred dollar repair…..

I feel your pain. My 2014 Wrangler is in having the clockspring replaced, a $500 job. Last Fall it was the bland door actuator, I think it was $300+. When I was younger, I could tackle these issues but not at this point in my life.

If it is an incorrectly adjusted/functioning clock spring, that is (can be) a serious safety defect and should be covered "Air Bag Light Illuminated" be damned.

Maybe some "squeaky wheel" treatment applied judiciously before tossing your wallet in the "Service departments" playground.

Well I checked it out further. I’m hearing the horn relay (non replaceable part of the TIPM) actuate, fuse good but no power at the fuse M23

And the shit just keeps on coming……

At least it’s not the clock spring this time.

On the clock spring campaign, they spell out the criteria pretty exactly on what condition warrants that. They aren’t very friendly when it came to any goodwill policy work. My radio quit just after 36k bit before 36 months. Well known problem, cold solder joints at the IC chip. No assistance. 475 plus labor for a refurbished radio.

I found a touch screen radio in one of the Jeep forums, 300 shipped and including the security code. Fifteen minutes and it was fixed.

Brother’s wrangler had a throttle position sensor intermittently misbehaving. Despite lurching across the parking lot… dealer goons: no error code, nothing to fix.

Still, it's better than a $800 a month payment for a new vehicle which is the average today.

Just finished putting all new steering components on the F150, after alignment and the new not worn parts in action it's clear the steering gear box is in need of replacement. $400 plus $150 core plus $150 for new hoses plus labor.

Found a closeout on Rockauto and good Edelman replacement hoses, under $200 no core requirement, figured what the heck go for the closeout on the CARDONE reman box,

Looks like I'll be getting greasy, it won't be easy laying on the floor LOL

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Still, it's better than a $800 a month payment for a new vehicle which is the average today.

Just finished putting all new steering components on the F150, after alignment and the new not worn parts in action it's clear the steering gear box is in need of replacement. $400 plus $150 core plus $150 for new hoses plus labor.

Found a closeout on Rockauto and good Edelman replacement hoses, under $200 no core requirement, figured what the heck go for the closeout on the CARDONE reman box,

Looks like I'll be getting greasy, it won't be easy laying on the floor LOL

Hope you’re right. My Wrangler will be due for a set of tires by winter. Just did the rear brakes a month ago and shocks all around three months ago. Battery is coming up on five years so that’ll be something else to look into.

Once the weather is a bit more stable so I can ride the bike and I recover from the 1700 I just put into the Liberty I get to send mine in for the right rear corner panel around the taillight to be replaced. A friend does body work out of his one man shop, 800-1000 is the estimate for that.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
If it is an incorrectly adjusted/functioning clock spring, that is (can be) a serious safety defect and should be covered "Air Bag Light Illuminated" be damned.

Maybe some "squeaky wheel" treatment applied judiciously before tossing your wallet in the "Service departments" playground.

I tried two of the closest Jeep dealers and was underwhelmed at both. The first, well it’s under new ownership at present. Second one, took both cars is a week apart, oil changes. Hers was fine, mine they lit the wrong spec oil in it, 5w-20 instead of 5w-30. Had to argue about that, I wasn’t taking “it’s fine” as an answer.

Second time, hers leaked in the filter area. Mine again wrong oil, another arguement. Guess the tech can’t read the cap that says 5w-30. Oil filter, they “cleaned it up” though it dripped for a week after the first time and the second trip in. Finally gave up, took it to the local Ford dealer, changed it again. Tech found only leak under there in the filter area, hasn’t leaked since.

I now take it to a friend’s shop, one of my old customers when I was still in dealership parts sales. He may not be the lowest price but he’s pretty meticulous.

quote:

FCA/Stellantis

Your problem is with JEEP, not FCA whatever... I don't understand the attraction people have with Jeeps, there are better off road vehicles out there and much more reliable...and most of the tricked out jeeps I see on the road have never seen a mud puddle... My buddy runs a repair shop and tells me he loves Jeep$$$$$....

60

Check Wal-Mart for the Battery, best prices around here, I just pull the old one, take it in and immediate core return.

I figure I've gotten 20+ years out of the truck, and it's been brakes, a set of rotors up front, plugs, tires, oil/filter and now the front suspension parts. 18 years of zero payments adds up quick, unfortunately it went to bourbon, cigars and Harley Davidson....

quote:

Originally posted by 1860ARMY:

quote:

FCA/Stellantis

The dealers were Chrysler,Dodge,Ram and Jeep.

Your problem is with JEEP, not FCA whatever... I don't understand the attraction people have with Jeeps, there are better off road vehicles out there and much more reliable...and most of the tricked out jeeps I see on the road have never seen a mud puddle... My buddy runs a repair shop and tells me he loves Jeep$$$$$....

60

Well for however bad your buddy says Jeeps are at least at 140k I’m still on the original steering gear, transmission, camshaft and lifters, more that I could say for the GMC Sierra that it replaced. At 150k that along with three instrument clusters, two seat belts. Three HVAC resistor modules, one blend door and many other things I’ve forgotten about. Oh, just remembered, no body rust but after three years the fuel door developed rust through. I will admit that the original transmission pan was a POS, it rusted and started dripping. Replaced it with a Mercedes pan, at least it was coated to prevent rust and it has a drain plug unlike the OEM. The transmission at least on mine is a Mercedes supplied component.

I fixed the horn last night, bad ground. Misdiagnosed the no power at the fuse, my Snap-On 12v probe doesn’t work, so I need to look at that too.

I will bitch at the engineering though. The electrical engineers must have learned from Lucas a thing or three about running wire to a common ground point several feet away on the opposite side, reminds me of the stuff they did in the 60’s with BSA and Triumph motorcycles.

The horn is on the left front corner, within maybe nine inches to the rear on the fender rail is a ground point stud that is used for the hood safety switch and another harness ground point. Instead running the ground across through a harness to the other side that would require the grille and headlights and probably the airbox to trace it makes so much more sense….
I “flat rated” it and made a new ground to that left fender stud, not spending a couple of hours in last night’s drizzling rain nor in todays sunshine to trace that wire. Those engines must have been related to the ones that designed the Cadillac CTS headlight setup, the one that requires the front bumper fascia to be removed to replace a headlight bulb.

HRK, I agree on the Wal-Mart batteries. That’s all that I buy anymore except for the one in my wife’s Liberty. That ones’s a Family Farm and Fleet, a DEKA as when hers started to go bad we were in the middle of a deep freeze in 2018 and they were literally the only one in town that had a battery to fit it. I didn’t hold out much hope as it only had a thirty month warranty but it’s been in since January 2018 so I was pleasantly surprised.

I had an issue with my 2010 Dodge Nitro and it's TIPM unit- Totally Integrated Power Module. The doors would not lock and the horn would not work by remote or by operating buttons on the door/wheel. I checked all the fuses and they were ok. I was told it would be a $1600 repair, (or more, if they could get a TIPM and it might be a couple month wait on it), as it was during the COVID time frame. I found a business on the net that fixed the units themselves and it would take a week total, to get it back to me. It was only a couple hundred dollars compared to $1600+ but it was a slight pain to get the module off. I had to pay 2 day shipping both ways but even then, it was cheaper and faster than waiting to see if the dealer could get one.

quote:

Originally posted by 1860ARMY:

quote:

FCA/Stellantis

Your problem is with JEEP, not FCA whatever... I don't understand the attraction people have with Jeeps, there are better off road vehicles out there and much more reliable...and most of the tricked out jeeps I see on the road have never seen a mud puddle... My buddy runs a repair shop and tells me he loves Jeep$$$$$....

60

Meh, my wife's Chrysler Pacifica (2018) had a cracked head at 79k... I knew SOMETHING was wrong with it but the dealership, after taking my $200, disagreed. Or more accurately, they said "there is nothing we can do until the check engine light comes back on" when it came on and off every couple of days at random. Guess it was my fault for assuming they've have someone in the back who could do some diagnostic testing besides plugging in a code reader.

Had a independent shop do the diagnostic and repair and they said it was an exceedingly common problem on that engine.... so, screw FCA and their dealers.

Wanna talk about the timing chain on my 5.4l Ford F150? Granted it has 290k on it but the collective opinion is that the passenger side head is junk as well so no one will tackle it. That means a crate motor for $10.5K Been told I was lucky and had I not always run Mobil 1 in it, it should have failed 90K ago.

Still cheaper than the payment on a "new" 4 year old truck.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:
I had an issue with my 2010 Dodge Nitro and it's TIPM unit- Totally Integrated Power Module. The doors would not lock and the horn would not work by remote or by operating buttons on the door/wheel. I checked all the fuses and they were ok. I was told it would be a $1600 repair, (or more, if they could get a TIPM and it might be a couple month wait on it), as it was during the COVID time frame. I found a business on the net that fixed the units themselves and it would take a week total, to get it back to me. It was only a couple hundred dollars compared to $1600+ but it was a slight pain to get the module off. I had to pay 2 day shipping both ways but even then, it was cheaper and faster than waiting to see if the dealer could get one.

Yes,that brings up another interesting thing. The TIPM. In Fix It Again Tony (FCA) world it makes total sense to have several replaceable relays in the fuse panel but integrate the damn horn relay to the circuit board so if it fails you have to replace the TIPM. Common sense isn’t too common anymore I guess.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HRK:
Still, it's better than a $800 a month payment for a new vehicle which is the average today.

800 a month, that's insane. My first house payment was just over 800 a month.

quote:

Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
Wanna talk about the timing chain on my 5.4l Ford F150? Granted it has 290k on it but the collective opinion is that the passenger side head is junk as well so no one will tackle it. That means a crate motor for $10.5K Been told I was lucky and had I not always run Mobil 1 in it, it should have failed 90K ago.

Still cheaper than the payment on a "new" 4 year old truck.

Might be worth looking into a junkyard 5.4 with low miles, with it out of the truck, put in new timing chain etc probably get 100K out of it vs a new 5.4 crate.

Brad, try car-part.com
Salvage yard part locator free to all.

My 5.4 is at 189K, it's at the point where it runs good still but, those timing chains are the time bomb (in any engine with high miles, even Toyotas need changing) so I googled the utoob tech FordTechMackuloco on it, mines the 2V, he has a 3valve video too...

If nothing it's fun to watch, informative, and really not difficult, think I'd do the oil pump and water pump while I was doing the timing chains.

Link How to change Timing chain Ford 5.4

If my 5.4 gives up the ghost it's getting a hot rod 5.0 Coyote, maybe I won't lose the shop if I can get it done in an hour...