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paradox in a box
Picture of frayedends
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I think the problems I have, A1, is that your posts seem as if you don’t know how real estate works. But you do know. There are rules on the forum for selling guns so if it’s listed for $100 the seller is obliged to sell it for that. But you know real estate is basically an auction. You don’t like it but you are aware so why be so upset about it? It’s no different than eBay. You know how it works and are fine with that too. No one is pulling a bait and switch with real estate. At least if they are using a broker they should know how it works. In most instances they will take asking if that’s the best offer. But you also can’t just consider price since there are so many other factors with real estate offers. Unless the buyer is all cash and no contingencies, of course.

We could turn your argument around also. Most buyers include a home inspection. Hey this is a sale and they offer asking price. But then they want to lower the price because they found chipped paint or an old roof. They had the chance to view the home but didn’t bring an inspector with them and now they want to change the deal? No difference really. It’s just how it works.




These go to eleven.
 
Posts: 10960 | Location: Westminster, MA | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
quote:
I think the problems I have, A1, is that your posts seem as if you don’t know how real estate works. But you do know.



Seeing one of our family businesses had developed and sold probably 2,000 homes, spawned one of the largest local real estate sale empires out of one of the old employees, and I have been licensed, I have a pretty good idea how it works.


quote:
so if it’s listed for $100 the seller is obliged to sell it for that.


You know why that's a "rule"? Because that's morally how it should work.


quote:
But you know real estate is basically an auction. You don’t like it but you are aware so why be so upset about it?


And there's my complaint!

If you want to have an "auction", conduct an auction. There's such a thing called a "real estate auction" that does this very thing.

If you "list your home for sale", you should not do so with zero intention of accepting the sale price under any circumstance.


quote:
It’s no different than eBay.


E-bay has "auctions", and they have "listings". On their "auctions" people bid. On their "listings" people can sometimes make offers, but if a buyer clicks "buy it now", the seller is obligated to sell the item at the price at which they listed it.

You can not use an E-bay "listing" to initiate an "auction" (bidding war).


quote:
No one is pulling a bait and switch with real estate.


Some people certainly are, as they are listing a property for sale, at a price, with zero intention of accepting that price.


quote:
But you also can’t just consider price since there are so many other factors with real estate offers. Unless the buyer is all cash and no contingencies, of course.


It has been admitted in this thread, and I have seen in real life, where brokers/agents intentionally convince the owners to list a price lower than what they know the property is worth in order to start a bidding war (auction) with no intention to accept that price, even from a person who offers all cash with no contingencies.

Please stop pretending that these games don't exist.

It has nothing to do with the vast complexities and legalities of real estate. If you offer an item for sale for a price and set of conditions, and somebody offers you that, you should accept it. If you're not willing to accept that price under any circumstance, you should not list it for that price. Period.

If you want to list your house for sale, and accept the price under some circumstances, get to listing.

If you want to list your house for sale for a price you'll never accept, auction it.

Stop trying to have it both ways.


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Posts: 14746 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
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quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
Seeing one of our family businesses had developed and sold probably 2,000 homes, spawned one of the largest local real estate sale empires out of one of the old employees, and I have been licensed, I have a pretty good idea how it works.

Are you implying that in those transactions, that never once in 2000 homes did that business refuse an offer at full listed price?

Curious.

You're making a theoretical case based on how you feel things should work. As long as you recognize (you're licensed) that is NOT the way the real world actually works, that feeling harms nobody and you have a right to it. (I feel that the DMV should be a smooth, happy, quick and friendly experience, myself.)

Here, in the real world, I made an all-cash at-listed-price offer for a beach rental home in a 'short sale' situation. Only offer made. They not only did not accept it, but countered raising the asking price by $250K. Eek Deal of course did not go through and I got my earnest money back in full.

Wasn't happy but kept looking and found a better place for a lower price.
 
Posts: 13916 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
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quote:
Are you implying that in those transactions, that never once in 2000 homes did that business refuse an offer at full listed price?


I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge, in the entire history of our companies, we have never built a house, listed it for sale at a price we would never accept, and then wait for the bidding wars to begin.

Isn't it funny how that works? Same real estate market. Same agents. Less of the nonsense. Can you imagine a new subdivision with a sign stating "Homes starting at $250,000", but the builder wouldn't actually sell you a home for that? I can't say I have even met a builder than engages in that "Bring us your highest and best" because the $200,000 list price isn't the real price. We're expecting $275,000 and are trying to create a feeding frenzy.

quote:
You're making a theoretical case based on how you feel things should work. As long as you recognize (you're licensed) that is NOT the way the real world actually works,


It seems to work this way in most of the rest of the world. I'm proposing that real estate should be no different, and should abide by the same morals and rules that govern everybody else.

If you want to sell for a price, state your price. If and when somebody comes along willing to pay your price, sell it.

If you want to sell to the highest bidder, then have an auction and let people bid.

I don't care how you do it, but you shouldn't be able to do both at the same time.

quote:
I made an all-cash at-listed-price offer for a beach rental home in a 'short sale' situation. Only offer made. They not only did not accept it, but countered raising the asking price by $250K. Eek Deal of course did not go through and I got my earnest money back in full.


And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Nonsense.

They wanted $250,000 more than they offered it for sale. That should be illegal. Seems that real estate is one of the few areas where this crap is tolerated.


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Posts: 14746 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
paradox in a box
Picture of frayedends
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A1, if you are talking new construction, then you are absolutely right. You mentioned "built a house". My fiance does new construction realty. They list a house price base, with the specs. There are tons of upgrades available. But you know what, every single buyer makes an offer that is lower than the list price and/or includes upgrades without the added cost. The builder generally accepts reasonable offers (he's been getting screwed lately because of lumber increases).

So yeah, with new construction if they offer list price then the sale absolutely will happen. The only negotiations are upgrade prices.

But in general, yes all existing home sales are auctions. It is my fiance's obligation as an agent to get the highest price for her client. That includes hoping for bidding wars and often pricing a bit below market value for just that purspose (overpricing has the opposite affect). But I will say that every listing she has, the seller will sell at list price if that is the best offer they get.

You keep saying that if they want to auction it then auction. All I'm saying is that they are. A real estate listing is an auction. MLS is an auction site. Everyone knows it. It's just verbiage at this point.




These go to eleven.
 
Posts: 10960 | Location: Westminster, MA | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of nhracecraft
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All of this is EXACTLY why people loathe the process of buying a house...or a car! Roll Eyes


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Posts: 4796 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
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Not one person complaining about price points would tell someone offering over the asking price that they can't accept it as someone offered them list....



 
Posts: 17498 | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Only the strong survive
Picture of 41
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How do you find a good real estate agent in Northern VA?

I have a 10 acre lot in Loudoun County I want to sell and the person I contacted was too lazy to look at the property.

Looks like I will end up listing it on Zillows.


41
 
Posts: 10932 | Location: Herndon, VA | Registered: June 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
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quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
All of this is EXACTLY why people loathe the process of buying a house...or a car! Roll Eyes


I like buying houses and cars. Haven't bought a house in 16 years, but I bought a new car 4 months or so ago. Had a great time doing it.
 
Posts: 6789 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
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quote:
A real estate listing is an auction. MLS is an auction site. Everyone knows it. It's just verbiage at this point.



So if a listing is an auction, and and auction is an auction, what's the difference between a listing and an auction?

And if all listings are auctions, why are new construction listings not?

In Missouri an auctioneer's license is required to auction real estate, but licensed auctioneers are not required to have a broker's license. If what realtors are indeed doing is conducting an auction, I'll go back to my original statement. They need to obtain their auctioneer's license and follow the associated laws.


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Posts: 14746 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Needs a check up
from the neck up
Picture of Timdogg6
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Heck I have builders who have agreed to a price and are mid construction, who are trying to stop construction to squeeze the buyer and resell the home to the same buyer for a higher price due to cost and market increases. Friggin nuts right now


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Posts: 4840 | Location: Boca Raton, FL The Gunshine State | Registered: July 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Timdogg6:
Heck I have builders who have agreed to a price and are mid construction, who are trying to stop construction to squeeze the buyer and resell the home to the same buyer for a higher price due to cost and market increases. Friggin nuts right now


That would be a horrible situation to be in. Even if they are held to their price, you know damn well they are going to cut every corner possible.
 
Posts: 3672 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
paradox in a box
Picture of frayedends
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
A real estate listing is an auction. MLS is an auction site. Everyone knows it. It's just verbiage at this point.



So if a listing is an auction, and and auction is an auction, what's the difference between a listing and an auction?

And if all listings are auctions, why are new construction listings not?

In Missouri an auctioneer's license is required to auction real estate, but licensed auctioneers are not required to have a broker's license. If what realtors are indeed doing is conducting an auction, I'll go back to my original statement. They need to obtain their auctioneer's license and follow the associated laws.


Because, and this is only a guess as I don’t know auctioneer license requirements, a realty license is a lot more involved than an auctioneer license. Anyone can yell out numbers, take a bid and do the money handling. Maybe that’s why we are disagreeing so much. Auctioneers and real estate brokers are not at all similar except the price negotiations.




These go to eleven.
 
Posts: 10960 | Location: Westminster, MA | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of ridewv
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quote:
Originally posted by 41:
How do you find a good real estate agent in Northern VA?

I have a 10 acre lot in Loudoun County I want to sell and the person I contacted was too lazy to look at the property.

Looks like I will end up listing it on Zillows.


I sure wouldn't want to pay an agent 5-6% just to sell my property anyway, yes put it on Zillow with a disclaimer that any buyer with an agent will be responsible for paying their agent.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5577 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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