quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
Also consider who would be able to buy houses for list, cash, no contingency? Investors maybe. Most people would miss out and probably have to deal with an investors auction. Same difference just more cost.

You might be surprised. That's pretty much the way I bought the house I live in now except I gave them list + $5K.

The difference between buying a gallon of milk and a real estate transaction is one uses a written contract. Buying a gallon of milk doesn’t require the buyer to make a written offer and the seller to accept the offer before the sale can take place. If I choose to sell a property, there is no agreement on the price until I accept an offer. Buyers are free to make what ever offers they want and I am free to accept whichever offer I want as well as to decline all of them. There is no requirement that I sell just because someone offered my price or ten times my price.

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The difference between buying a gallon of milk and a real estate transaction is one uses a written contract

You could use a written contract to buy milk, and you don't have to use a written contract to buy real estate. I could buy your house practically the same way I could buy milk.

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Buying a gallon of milk doesn’t require the buyer to make a written offer and the seller to accept the offer before the sale can take place.

In most cases is does require the seller to make a written offer (the price tag, advertisement, etc) and the buyer to accept the offer (making the purchase at the register) for the sale to take place.

Attempting to sell the milk at something other than the advertised price (mistakes not withstanding) generally runs afoul of consumer protection laws. Basically if you advertise it for a price, you generally must sell it for that price.

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If I choose to sell a property, there is no agreement on the price until I accept an offer.

That's correct. But a buyer willing to pay you exactly what you're asking isn't "an offer". An offer is for something other than which you asked for.

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Buyers are free to make what ever offers they want

They sure are!

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I am free to accept whichever offer I want as well as to decline all of them

Again, I agree up until the point that somebody presents you with exactly that for which you asked. That is not an offer. That's what you asked for.

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There is no requirement that I sell just because someone offered my price

There is in many other types of transactions, and I propose that real estate be included within that list. If you offer something for sale, at a set of terms, and a buyer meets those terms, then you should indeed be obligated to sell.

If you don't want to sell for a price, don't list it for sale at a price. If you want offers, auction it. If you want to make sure you meet a minimum price, set a reserve. Do not list something for sale with no intent to sell it as advertised.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
There is in many other types of transactions, and I propose that real estate be included within that list. If you offer something for sale, at a set of terms, and a buyer meets those terms, then you should indeed be obligated to sell.

I don't think this is such a good idea. Real property is different than personal property. You've compared selling a house to selling a gallon of milk, but the two cannot be compared. Property held as fee simple is treated differently in the law than personal property, and I don't think you'd want real and personal property treated the same. Fee simple property is the highest, most secure and sacred of all property rights, and for good reason. Treating a piece of real property the same as any other property would be a tremendous diminuation of property rights.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigcrazy7,

We can thank all of transplants from California, New York and Seattle. Home prices in the DFW area are up 35-60%. A home down the street sold for 65k over listing. There were 35 offers within 2 days. It sold for a full cash offer of $525. The same home sold in 2015 for $365. There were a pair of New Jersey license plates in the driveway.

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Originally posted by JR78:
We can thank all of transplants from California, New York and Seattle. Home prices in the DFW area are up 35-60%. A home down the street sold for 65k over listing. There were 35 offers within 2 days. It sold for a full cash offer of $525. The same home sold in 2015 for $365. There were a pair of New Jersey license plates in the driveway.

Oh fuck don’t get me started. I’m seeing plates from all over. One Costco run in Plano, man I see this big fuck off van, some Nissan large van deal. Lift kit, 33’s, all kitted out for desert bullshit and they are loading the fuck out of it. Monster sized flat panel tv, groceries, a chair, I mean fuck what didn’t they buy? I’m walking out and see “Utah” plates and I’m like fuck me. I thought a bunch of them were moving there, not them moving here! I see foreign plates every day. I have never keyed a car and never will. But the ass hole at the gym with Kali plates who backed in using 2 parking spots, parking his/her douchemobile diagonally, man I really wanted to key the fucking thing or grab my towel, wrap it around my hand and bunch a window out. The traffic is insane now, anywhere, any day of the week. My country roads I ride, even just 2 years ago, a pleasure on a Sunday afternoon. Ruined now. The Kali people are driving the TX folk north, and they are buying up every got damn piece of land. It’s hard to think they’ll stay long term out there either. There isn’t a fucking Starbucks for 30 minutes, nor a mall or Best Buy or what-the-fuck-ever store. It’s turned into a nightmare.

We have new Connecticut transplants that just moved down the street from me in April. Bernie sticker on their SAAB SUV.

My neighbor told me they were upset that they were not invited to my 4th neighborhood BBQ.

The easiest (and by no means guaranteed) way to discourage this cancer from spreading is by not welcoming it in the first place.

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Originally posted by smlsig:

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Originally posted by tatortodd:
Somewhere between 2.1 and 3.9 million homes avoiding foreclosure due to various federal and state laws. FHA's is expiring June 30th, and several large mortgage lenders may begin pushing it in July. Link.

The above article aligns with conversations with two of my neighbors - one manages a title office and other in management at a mortgage lender. Adding 2.1+ million homes to the real estate market is likely to really shake things up. Maybe even end this idiotic boom.

Not so fast.
I read an article in the WSJ this morning that the big investment firms like Blackstone are buying up homes (thousands) that they see as a good investment to rent out and possibly later sell as it appreciates….


https://www.wsj.com/articles/u...rticle_copyURL_share

To put it in perspective, the typical value of U.S. homes is $269,039 as of January 2021 according to Zillow which means:

Blackstone's $6 billion is 22,302 average homes.

The foreclosure issue is 94 to 175 times larger than Blackstone's splashy headline. In other words, it's $565 billion to $1.05 trillion so it would make a much larger ripple.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

Yes, unfortunately, TX is being ruined by CA and NY transplants.

Where are WE going to go, when they turn our state blue and make it more trashy and un-affordable?

I just wanted to pop in and comment on the auction vs. sale thing here. I only skimmed the rest of the thread. I'm an attorney as well as a real estate broker, so hopefully can add some color to the discussion.

When a Seller lists a house "for sale" (whether on the MLS or by putting a sign on the yard), then the Seller is creating an "invitation to offer" NOT creating a binding offer.

The legal reason for this is that an agreement is only binding if both parties have a "meeting of the minds" with regards to the material terms of the transaction.

If you go to buy a carton of milk off of the shelf at the grocery store, there is sufficient understanding between the parties of all the material terms. One carton of in-stock milk at the specified price, plus applicable tax, payable at checkout using a payment method acceptable to the store, carried away immediately. Change any of those terms, and the store has no obligation to sell you the carton of milk at the specified price. That is, if you roll up to the check-out and try to pay in arcade tokens, you have modified the terms of the deal and the store is free to accept, reject, or counter-offer. Some of the deal terms are expressly stated (the price tag), other deal terms are implied by law (tax collected upon sale) or custom (pay at the cashier, carry away immediately), but in the case of the carton of milk, there is enough detail to the deal to satisfy the legal requirements of a contract.

With respect to listing a house for sale, the posting of the ad does not carry enough detail that a meeting of the minds is created by someone walking up to the door, extending their hand, and saying "deal". There are numerous terms subject to further negotiation, and no deal is created until all material terms have been settled and agreed upon. Closing date, closing costs, payment location and payment delivery, property condition at delivery, escrow instructions, etc. all must be settled and agreed upon and no contract exists until that's all hammered out.

Thus, a real estate listing is merely an invitation to offer, not an actual offer to sell. The Buyer makes the first offer, the seller is free to accept, reject, or counter-offer. When multiple Buyers make offers, there is no bidding going on--each offer is independent of the other and the Seller is bound to the offer that he/she ultimately accepts. The Seller cannot bind one Buyer to a deal, and then proceed to bind another that bids higher as in an actual auction. Ultimately, the Seller need not accept any offer at all and the Seller has never obligated himself/herself to sell the property in any instance.

Aeoteocles: thanks for that concise description. It’s kinda what I was attempting to convey.

I agree with my brothers in the GreatState of Texas. Colorado has been taken over by the Cailifornians and have totally f'd up this state. The enclaves of Denver/Boulder/Ft Collins has so many libs "you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one."

The prices for mountain property or houses with any acreage are ridiculous stupid.

Modulars are going for $400K. That is NOT in a ski area or Californian enclave.

I have been contemplating moving from Colorado to a Red State that doesn't have such a liberal governor. Too bad since my family has been in CO since 1886.

The neighbor , Carol , a few homes down. Fell and broke her hip, she had decided to move in too an apt. In a nursing home .

Her realtor started her 1966 built house at $170,000, on Monday.

It sold for $195,000 on Tuesday at 3 p.m. ( sale pending with three bidders hoping the deal falls through )

We are due for a real estate correction. But the reason prices are the way they are, is because mortgage rates are so low (too low). Let's face it, 90% of real estate buyers are payment buyers. They go to the bank and get pre-qualified for X amount of loan based on their income.

A $2000 monthly payment on a 30 year loan at 2.91% interest is a $480,000 loan

A $2,000 monthly payment on a 30 year loan at 5.5% interest is a $352,000 loan......

If rates go up, and we have a correction, a lot of people will stay in their current loan because the monthly payment is still lower. Yes, some will sell at a loss or walk away because they have to move.......and values will go down some......they need to......

jimmy for the win. I hate debt. At current interest rates though it’s tempting to keep the cash from my home sale and finance more on the new house. It’s not hard to beat a 3% rate of return.

[QUOTE]and you don't have to use a written contract to buy real estate.[QUOTE]

This is incorrect in most, if not all states. The sale of real property does, in fact, require a written contract. It is known as the Statue of Frauds. For instance, California Code of Civil Procedure § 1624(a) states, in applicable part:

The following contracts are invalid, unless they, or some note or memorandum thereof, are in writing and subscribed by the party to be charged or by the party’s agent:…

(3) An agreement for the sale of real property, or of an interest therein;....

quote:

This is incorrect in most, if not all states. The sale of real property does, in fact, require a written contract.

Only for the contract to be enforceable should there be a disagreement between parties, and as you said, don't believe it's a requirement in "all states".

It's similar to those who say you must have car insurance to drive your car. No, not always. So excuse me while I run to the store. I need to bid on some milk.

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Ultimately, the Seller need not accept any offer at all and the Seller has never obligated himself/herself to sell the property in any instance.

One caveat. The seller may have bound themselves to pay a commission

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Originally posted by nasig:

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Ultimately, the Seller need not accept any offer at all and the Seller has never obligated himself/herself to sell the property in any instance.

One caveat. The seller may have bound themselves to pay a commission

Such may be the case if there is an agreement between the Seller and the Seller's real estate Broker. But, between Seller and Buyer, the Seller has no obligation to any potential Buyer until the material terms have been agreed upon.

Even the commission for the Buyer's Agent is paid by the Seller's Broker, not the Seller. (In California. This may differ in other states, of course.)

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between Seller and Buyer, the Seller has no obligation to any potential Buyer until the material terms have been agreed upon.

That's true in anything.

Post a pistol for sale here in the forum, and you don't have to sell it until the material terms have been agreed upon.

However, post it for $100 to start a bidding war and see what happens.

I don't care what the legal or technical excuses are. You should morally never list something for sale for a price that you have zero intention of accepting under any circumstance. And if the list price is meaningless, why choose any number at all? Just list it with no price. Why not $1.00? Why not $10,000,000,000?

I would never do business with anybody who offers an item at a price which they would never honor.