It's as if you read my mind, sigmonkey.

I'm just placing a holster order with Red Hill Tactical. Under shipping, I can choose to add insurance. It's required on orders over $200.00.

The insurance cost is $2.80 for my item.

It clearly states next to the selection, "By choosing NOT to insure my package I understand that this store is NOT responsible for any loss or damage to the package or its contents incurred during shipping."

While this is not Bud's, it's the same concept. I cannot expect that the shipping will be covered for more than the basic guarantee, unless I opt for the additional insurance.

Best case scenario, if my holster shows up crushed, or disappears in the mail, if I've elected to pay for the insurance, then I'm out nothing; because the shipment was insured.

If I elect not to pay the insurance, I understand that the basic coverage may not be enough to cover my purchase, and may not cover the entire cost. Up to me. If I pay the extra money for shipping and it turns out that the holster arrives in bad shape, then it's covered, I'm out nothing, and have nothing to complain about.

If Red Hill gets the holster back fixes it and sells it again, that's their concern, not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Can I just send you three bucks and this thread can die?

This..

I must be missing something because it sounds like the OP thinks, because he paid to insure it, he should get a full refund and keep the ammo that arrived in a wet box.

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
I must be missing something because it sounds like the OP thinks, because he paid to insure it, he should get a full refund and keep the ammo that arrived in a wet box.

it wouldn't take long for people to figure out all they had to do was insure the ammo dump some water on the boxes and get a two for one deal.

But he just wants to make sure they don’t sell it again...

quote:

How do you know that? They told you they're "self insured." That means you paid them $3 to make you whole regardless of the cost or the reason the product did not arrive, and arrive in satisfactory condition

So they self-insure. Pooling the money they collect and pay their own claims. Nothing wrong with that. Law of averages they probably make some profit, so be it. They take the risk of payout.

UPS insurance charges are $1.05 per $100 declared value with a minimum charge of $3.15, this is from their website as current 2020 information.

So if the package was valued at $110 you would have still paid $3.15 in additional insurance for the ten dollars over the hundred dollars free coverage.

If Bud's (or any other seller) is self insuring and they state they will make you whole for any loss or damage I'd jump on that. Dealing with a common carrier such as UPS, FedEx or USPS for a loss or damage claim can be a nightmare. If you have not had to deal with that, congrats, I have and it's not pleasurable. They don't want to pay off for loss or damage. Any tactic to avoid paying they use. Last time around my summer car sat for almost three weeks on jackstands waiting for two out of four wheels lost in transit while FedEx Ground played the blame game with everyone but themselves. The finally found them sitting at a hub. Shipping labels had been torn off (?) the boxes and despite the boxes being both labeled "Packing Slips Inside" nobody there could open them to check for a name or address.

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
... it sounds like the OP thinks, because he paid to insure it, he should get a full refund and keep the ammo that arrived in a wet box.

Sounds like it, but, in the same breath he expresses concern that, if it returns it, the seller my resell the ammo he believes may be compromised. Thus my confusion: If it may be compromised, why would he want to keep it? I don't know about anybody else, but if I believe ammo to be potentially unsafe I'm not shooting it.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
Dealing with a common carrier such as UPS, FedEx or USPS for a loss or damage claim can be a nightmare.

Not if you instead file a CC dispute and make the seller eat the loss. Or at least that's his assertion.

The ethics of violating the terms of a contract aside: ISTM one would still be required to return the "defective" merchandise. So let's say you do that, and let's say that, despite the contract terms, the seller pays the return shipping, anyway. Same result as the $3 insurance, less the $3. So we're back to "It's all about $3."

I've never filed a charge dispute, but ISTM the card issuer is not going to willy-nilly reverse charges just on a card-holder's assertions. ISTM they would get the merchant's side of the story, too. I would think the merchant could then respond "It was damaged in shipment. Our shipping policy clearly states..." and the card issuer would decide in the merchant's favour. That would seem the rational process, to my way of thinking.

Unless what the OP's been talking about all along is "purchase protection," rather than the charge dispute process. That's a whole different thing.

You guys got it all worked out now?

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
The insurance bought you exactly what is happening.

No insurance, you keep the wet ammo, too bad, so sad.

You're getting what you paid for.

Precisely and concisely.

I am so lost,
a little water, even a lot wont hurt ammo. I may annoyed with not having packaging but I probably would have dried it off and never given it another thought.

If I were so bored to even bring it up, id be happy for the replacement and send the wet ammo back and call it a day.

either way I cant see anything Bud's has done wrong, even if they chose to resell it, how is that your business? Maybe try a valium, or just breathe man, getting worked up over 3 dollars worth of insurance isnt worth it, unless of course you want to keep the ammo you got and get it replaced too, but thats just stealing.

I used to be a restaurant manager between high school and college. Sometimes people would complain:

Me: “How was everything?”
Patron: “Terrible. My steak was undercooked.”
Me: “Sorry to hear that. Can I have it to discuss with the cook?”
Patron: “Can’t. Ate the whole thing, but I should get it for free.”

I’m getting those vibes from this thread.

After reading this thread, I feel the thread title is misleading.

Wow. Now I feel like writing a rant about people who don’t read an entire thread before posting. They cherry pick or skim and then post.

My original complaint was off base. I was wrong. I posted exactly those words. Even said my initial position was stupid. My word, stupid. I’m sending the ammo back, getting my money back and I won’t ever buy ammo (never had an issue with firearms purchases) from Buds ever again. Buyer beware. Take a risk with buying ammo from Buds at your peril. Here is why. Quick synopsis for you skimmers.

1) First and foremost, I have never bought ammo online that was less competently packaged/shipped. Others feel free to chime in if your experience is different. I order ammo by the case, constantly. Not counting 22, probably nearing 10k rounds a year. Enough to form an opinion let’s say.

Never, never, never have I bought ammo where the shipper just pulled the ammo box off a pallet , slapped a shipping label on it and away it went. It’s a 48 lb box of ammo. Forget it getting wet. Every corner was crushed.

Ammoman, SG Ammo, and Target Sports all do what you would expect. They pull that box of ammo off the pallet and then place inside a shipping box with padding. Peanuts, cardboard, butcher paper, etc. The actual package is protected.

2). Insurance. I fundamentally think their insurance is flawed. They shipped a package that was LIKELY to get damaged. Getting wet was probably all UPS. Getting beat to shit because you don’t take the time to package it is bullshit. Charging insurance when you know you aren’t even attempting to assuage the risk of shipping damage is a scam. Ammoman doesn’t even offer insurance. If it doesn’t arrive or is damaged, they just fix the problem. I say scam, you disagree or not isn’t my problem.

3). Buyer beware. I stand by that 100%. My initial response was stupid and wrong and I clearly made it sound like I wanted my money and keep the ammo. Which, dare I say it again for you luddites (I’m going to beat this to death) who can’t read a whole thread in one sitting, was stupid. I was wrong.

Let’s address buyer beware. I stand by that because if my package was their norm. Which in talking to them, it is, you will always get a package that is poorly packaged. It might be damaged. They encourage you to buy insurance that protects you from their lazy business practices.

No one should ever ship 50 lb boxes of ammo without packaging them correctly. All the above shippers I noted do this. And at least one doesn’t require or allow you to buy insurance to cover their sloppiness.

If my ammo had been boxed correctly none of this would have transpired. This is their normal way of shipping. Go pick up a case of ammo. Any ammo. Imagine shipping it by slapping a label on that box. 50lbs, no packing materials, no edge protection, nothing. Would you as a dumb ass shipping one box of ammo guy, ever do that? Or would you pack it correctly so the buyer gets the product in good condition? Now imagine you ship this way hundreds of times a week.

Fuck Buds and their ammo business. Every business I named above does better. Every time. I bought this one case because the price was too good to be true. Never again. You do want you want.

Hey now, I can get behind that argument.

I’ve never ordered ammo by the case as I’ve been fortunate enough to live within a 10 minute drive to Bud’s in Lexington and now I have a PSA within a 10 minute drive of my house here in SC. I too would be a bit upset if a 50lbs box showed up destined to get damaged at some point.