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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by Replacement Tommel:
Seemed like it took all of its riffs from "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy"
I got that impression as well, and that's only from seeing the trailer.

Todd Phillips directed, co-produced, & co-wrote the film. He's made it perfectly clear that Joker is heavily influenced by those Scorcese films. In fact, Scorcese was a co-producer until he left to concentrate on The Irishman.

If you're familiar w/ Scorcese films, then you'll understand why Gotham City in Joker looks dirty and gritty like 1970s NYC. You'll get why DeNiro playing a talk show host is a nod to the role Jerry Lewis played in King of Comedy opposite DeNiro. Not everyone will get it, but older film fans are supposed to get it. It's like when Quinten Tarantino casts Sonny Chiba to be a Japanese swordsmith, Gordon Liu to be a white-haired, white-bearded martial arts master (aka, the White Lotus), and David Carradine as [Kill] Bill.

Given Scorsese's recent newsworthy comments expressing his contempt for superhero films over the past 10 years, do you think he'd be willing to attach his name to any ole' comic book movie? Joker has Scorsese's fingerprints all over it.
 
Posts: 1685 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
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Just got back from a matinee IMAX showing. Ordered a tall beer and dug into my seat. The last time I was in a movie theater was when Chris Nolan's Dunkirk was released.

This is no superhero movie, not a single one in this film. No fairy story telling in this one. I don't even consider it a "comic book movie", its styling owes much to Taxi Driver, Midnight Cowboy, basically an homage of sorts to 70s films. This is a "period" film, taking place in 1970s "New York (Gotham). No internet, cable TV, cell phones, etc. The films even starts with this familiar opening:



And the Batman canon exists in its own unique way, but like I stated, not a single "superhero" present whatsoever.

Many of the camera shots and cinematography is influenced by 70s cinema, but with also a Chris Nolan influence permeating throughout the film. There are no cliches, quick-cut editing, or any of that garbage. There is no nudity, hardly any profanity, and the violence level is more Godfather-like than John Wick (which is 100 times more violent). And this is rated R, I'm guessing because it is a really dark film.

So why go see it? Joaquin Phoenix outdoes Heath Ledger in his portrayal of the Joker. Hell, I think he did a better job than DeNiro in Taxi Driver. Great performance. The script is great, but in ways a complex one. This ain't a cookie-cutter formula movie and definitely merits a second viewing. The direction and cinematography are excellent, soundtrack also excellent.

This movie is a character study of an evil crazy comic book villain, and it goes way beyond what I expected.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 12391 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get on the fifty!
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I don't think bubbatime and I enjoy the same movies.

I watched it last night and thought it was excellent.



Pickin' stones and pullin' teats is a hard way to make a living. But, sure as God's got sandals, it beats fightin' dudes with treasure trails.

We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed, and we've been quite possibly, bamboozled.
 
Posts: 3303 | Location: OK | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Once and Future SIG Shooter
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My wife and I went to see this movie a few days ago. In no way is this a comic book movie or a superhero movie, ala Justice League, Wonder Woman, et al. This is a dark, gritty film and it is fantastic. I haven't watched the Academy Awards in at least a decade, and don't go around using the term Oscar-worthy, but this film is Best Picture material and Joaquin Phoenix definitely deserves Best Actor. However, judging by the left's response, I doubt either one of those things will happen.
 
Posts: 4488 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: December 08, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great performance by Phoenix. Very slow. Slooooowwwwww. I almost fell asleep. You are either going to love it or hate it. I hated it. Boring as all hell.
 
Posts: 2286 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I thought it was great.



"Ninja kick the damn rabbit"
 
Posts: 4163 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: October 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
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Loved it. Phoenix was outstanding and topped Ledger's Joker.

I personally liked that it was a Joker steeped in the mental illness aspect of the mythos, not in the "agent of chaos" of Ledger's Joker. The unreliable narrator was written and played perfectly.

I also greatly enjoyed that it undercut the Batman legend by showing Thomas Wayne to be a lousy asshole at the very least and an adulterous schemer who lobotomized Arthur's mom at worst. Even the Alfred character's brief appearance showed him to be more thug than cultured pedagogue of Bruce Wayne.

The final "joke" was a perfect note to end the movie on.

The movie was bleak as all hell and, as many have said, not at all a superhero movie.

PS: watching Deniro's character get tapped in the head didn't make me feel bad at all, either....


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 18342 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Help! Help!
I'm being repressed!

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Spoilers below



After watching this movie I got the feeling the entire movie took place in Arthur Fleck's head and that he did finally break in the last scene.

The last scene is set apart from the rest of the film as it takes place in a clean, disinfected, immaculate setting. I got the impression the first killing Fleck did was the last one in the movie.

Why else would he be left alone and only his hands restrained in the front?

And I know you'll all roll your eyes at the no cliche of it "all being in his head", but this guy is supposed to be crazy so, yeah.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skull Leader,
 
Posts: 10228 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: November 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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While it's obvious that his relationship with the girl down the hall was all in his head, he definitely was involved in everything else. But what bothered me about the film is the way society was so quick to rise up in anarchy because of his actions. It seemed really disconnected from the way people normally behave.



"I'm yet another resource-consuming kid in an overpopulated planet raised to an alarming extent by Hollywood and Madison Avenue, poised with my cynical and alienated peers to take over the world when you're old and weak!" - Calvin, "Calvin & Hobbes"
 
Posts: 16538 | Location: Sonoma County, CA | Registered: April 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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^^^^^^^

Maybe a spoiler alert tag would be appropriate?

I saw it a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. It is certainly not a comic book movie. There’s very little violence and no hero’s. There isn’t really even a villain for most of it. The movie does a great job at making you watch a mans descent into that role though.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13297 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I can't think of
anything though
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There isn’t really even a villain for most of it.


That's the great thing about the movie. The guy does bad things, and of course we know who he becomes. . a villian. But we as an audience are still led to root for him.


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Posts: 5640 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: September 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
^^^^^^^

Maybe a spoiler alert tag would be appropriate?

Talk to Skull Leader, then. Not me.



"I'm yet another resource-consuming kid in an overpopulated planet raised to an alarming extent by Hollywood and Madison Avenue, poised with my cynical and alienated peers to take over the world when you're old and weak!" - Calvin, "Calvin & Hobbes"
 
Posts: 16538 | Location: Sonoma County, CA | Registered: April 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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quote:
Originally posted by Orguss:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
^^^^^^^

Maybe a spoiler alert tag would be appropriate?

Talk to Skull Leader, then. Not me.


I mean...it’s kinda for both of you.

It wasn’t meant as a slight or anything you know. Just a friendly suggestion as a curtesy for members who might not have seen the movie.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13297 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Help! Help!
I'm being repressed!

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There, sorry. This forum could benefit from a spoiler bbcode thing.
 
Posts: 10228 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: November 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I saw Joker and was thinking about it recently. First off, Joaquin Phoenix's acting performance lived up to the hype. He will get an Oscar nomination, and if he wins Best Actor, then he will have earned it.

Here's something that's been bothering me about the movie. It has very little to do w/ Batman and the DC Universe, aside from a few character & location names. If you changed Joker to Jester, Gotham to NYC, Arkham Hospital to Acker Hospital, Thomas Wayne to Thomas Wright, it would not affect the story at all. In other words, it's an interesting character study about a man losing his mind, but since the writers threw in some Batman allusions and Easter eggs, all of the sudden, it's supposed to be a ground-breaking dark & serious comicbook movie.

I didn't buy that. Logan was a dark & serious R-rated comicbook movie that was dependent on back stories of Wolverine, Professor Xavier, the X-men, et al. Joker was more like fan-fiction recycling some old Scorsese movie plots & characters.

Just because someone is crazy, does not make him a criminal mastermind. I never believed Phoenix's Joker had the brains and persuasion to take over the criminal underworld. He's also too frail. That's the difference between Heath Ledger's Joker and Phoenix's. Ledger convinced you he & Batman were opposite sides of the same coin. As Alfred put it, he was a man who simply wants to see the world burn. Phoenix's character was just a mentally ill guy spiraling down the path to murder-suicide. There was nothing that convinced me he could be a super-villain.

About ten years ago, there was a fad of mashup novels, such as Pride & Prejudice & Zombies. That one was made into a movie. If I recommended a supernatural novel about Matthew Williams: Vampire Hunter, set in 19th Century America, would that catch your attention? It sounds like a thousand other vampire stories, right? What if instead it's Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter? Does that get your attention? It ties together Lincoln's biography and the abolition movement with the hunt for vampires. Novel concept, no?

It's a joke or twist good enough to sustain a 15-20 min skit but not a 105 min movie or 300+ pg book. If that movie had Daniel Day Lewis as its lead, he would have knocked it out of the park. Imagine DDL's Lincoln combined w/ his Hawkeye from Last of the Mohicans. His performance would be first-rate but not enough to salvage the gimmicky story of Lincoln fighting vampires.

A lot of people have commented that Joker is, "not a comicbook movie," or, "much more than a comicbook movie."
That is both a compliment and criticism, b/c yes, Joker is not a by-the-numbers comicbook movie full of superhero story tropes. But also, it would not be getting near attention it has received if it were Jester instead of Joker. IOW, the movie really isn't about the Joker. It's more like the diary of a crazy guy who thinks he's the Joker. If Scorsese made a movie where Travis Bickle thought he was John Wick, it'd be like that. It wouldn't mean Travis became John Wick.
 
Posts: 1685 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have a very particular
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I caught the last showing in our local theater last night before it moved on.

As others have stated, Phoenix's performance was very solid in its own, unique way..

This movie is more about a disturbed man devolving and finally embracing an existence of a true, hands-on murderous psychopath. This is a much darker role than the Joker in the Dark Knight. Where in DK, Joker does little 'hands on' really gruesome stuff, except for maybe the 'pencil trick,' his portrayal was more in line with villains we're used to in movies...shooting at things, blowing things up, threats, fighting...just with acting done very, very well. And of course Dark Knight has all the other 'cool' stuff...BW, Tumbler Batmobile, Batsuit/gear, fight scenes, etc.

Phoenix's portrayal is a much more 'plausible' adaptation...vicious and fragmenting, and fully within the realm of 'this could sorta actually happen.' You don't have to suspend your belief that Batman could weave/thread his bat cable through an moving 18-wheeler and cause it to flip.

As said, Phoenix is very good in a very different type of movie, but IMHO doesn't surpass Ledger's Joker. Put another way, they're both good, but its not an Apples-to-Apples comparison.

But in all likelihood, unless I'm really bored, probably won't watch Joker again...just not as entertaining as a true 'action movie' IMHO.

$.02 worth.
Boss


A real life Sisyphus...
"It's not the critic who counts..." TR
Exodus 23.2: Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong...
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Posts: 4368 | Location: In the arena... | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Live long
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Meh!

Great performance, good direction altogether BUT if it didn't wear the Batman vilain sticker on it there's NO WAY I've bothered watching it.

0-0
 
Posts: 10809 | Location: BsAs, Argentina | Registered: February 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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