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Picture of aparoche
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quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
quote:
Who's gonna save the doctor so he can deliver Maggie's baby? He's got a minor trap injury on his leg and took a handgun shot to the body, seems unlikely he can treat both himself

The Indian guy that Carl saved will end up doing it, thereby proving his worth and validating Carl's decision.


Yep, he mentioned he was a resident pre-apocalypse. Pretty sad when you can predict every plotline in this formerly great show...

 
Posts: 432 | Registered: November 18, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by terra:
quote:
Originally posted by Jaywendland1981:
quote:
Who's gonna save the doctor so he can deliver Maggie's baby?



He's dead Jim.


I don’t know. At least the camera angle made it seem that they left him in the pickup bed along with the now blind preacher. wouldn’t make sense to leave him there if he’s going to turn with the blind preacher in the same area.


I missed that camera angle. The one I saw they pulled him out of the truck on to the ground and closed the tailgate.
 
Posts: 586 | Location: PHILADELPHIA,PA,USA | Registered: October 24, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KML:
quote:
Originally posted by terra:
quote:
Originally posted by Jaywendland1981:
quote:
Who's gonna save the doctor so he can deliver Maggie's baby?



He's dead Jim.


I don’t know. At least the camera angle made it seem that they left him in the pickup bed along with the now blind preacher. wouldn’t make sense to leave him there if he’s going to turn with the blind preacher in the same area.


I missed that camera angle. The one I saw they pulled him out of the truck on to the ground and closed the tailgate.


Maybe he's hiding under a dumpster.

/sarcasm mode off/

I too thought he got dumped in the road. If the doc is indeed dead, the writers should have given him a few more seconds, even if just a view of his body from the weird Father Gabriel eyes. No, he was not a major character, but he "deserved" a better send off if he's dead.

I'm still guessing he's alive and the trash lady will get him to the Hilltop.
 
Posts: 13226 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unflappable Enginerd
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quote:
I too thought he got dumped in the road. If the doc is indeed dead, the writers should have given him a few more seconds, even if just a view of his body from the weird Father Gabriel eyes. No, he was not a major character, but he "deserved" a better send off if he's dead.

I'm still guessing he's alive and the trash lady will get him to the Hilltop.
Yeah, nope. They dumped him out of the truck after shooting him. I guess in theory he could come back as a walker since they didn't show anyone "finishing" him.

Does anyone here watch the Talking Dead? He was on there and acknowledged as dead in the show though, he isn't coming back...


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Posts: 3791 | Location: Headland, AL | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Waiting for Hachiko
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I gave up watching TWD about a year/half ago.

However, watched Sunday's episode, just to see how much it has changed.

Wondering....
What eventually happens to Negan in the end?
And In Carol's holster was a SW MP, was that made at the beginning of filming TWD? Or is it poetic license?


美しい犬
 
Posts: 5060 | Location: Near the Metropolis of Tightsqueeze, Va | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I remember the times when TWD episodes would yield multiple pages of posts in this forum. Sigforum tends to see things objectively; I guess the series has run its course with members...



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 10930 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
There is a world elsewhere
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quote:
I remember the times when TWD episodes would yield multiple pages of posts in this forum. Sigforum tends to see things objectively; I guess the series has run its course with members...




It used to be that people's willful suspension of disbelief, buoyed by the compelling story and characters, allowed us to look past the technical deficiencies and some of the dumb things characters did.

Now, the story and characters are so contrived, so dumb, the technical deficiencies stand out as glaring failures, trying to prop up implausible stories inhabited by characters for whom no one cares.

You want to kill off Glen? Ok, but introducing five shallow characters from Hilltop or the Kingdom doesn't make up for it.

The story used to be more intimate, a small band of survivors, their struggles together in an unforgiving world. Now we have tigers and .50 cal MGs that go pew pew pew with a cast of hundreds. (BTW, .50cals M2HBs were laying all over the place in the first seasons, along with HUMVEES, which nobody thought to scrounge, but now they are a major plot point)

Who even cares?


A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.
 
Posts: 6656 | Location: The hard land of the Winter | Registered: April 14, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KML:

I missed that camera angle. The one I saw they pulled him out of the truck on to the ground and closed the tailgate.


I'm sure you're right. I tend to have a few IPA's watching the show. Only way to deal with all the filler and the 5+ min commercial breaks. I just thought how they focused on the DR & how the preacher (who I forgot is partially blind)looked at his dead body, they left him in the truck bed. Oh well.
 
Posts: 1640 | Location: NH | Registered: January 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm trying not to think about this show but where to from here? How about this -- another regular or two die, Rick starts to see the wisdom of Carltopia and reaches out to Negan. On his own, Dwight kills Negan, setting off a comprehensive slaughter, back to square one, pray for sponsors.


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Posts: 5061 | Location: Columbia, Illinois | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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MANY plot spoilers here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/e...he-key/#4ca52eb37f0c

'The Walking Dead' Season 8, Episode 12 Review: 'The Key'

Erik Kain , CONTRIBUTOR
MAR 18, 2018 @ 10:00 PM

Sunday night's episode of The Walking Dead was another decent episode, at least compared to the first half of Season. In 'The Key' we get some action, some deceit and betrayal, and a few new faces. Sadly, we also get more Enid scenes.

Enid is just a notch or two lower on my 'most obnoxious Walking Dead characters' list than Tara. Both characters are completely worthless, but at least Enid has the excuse of being young. Tara should know better. Thankfully, we didn't get any Tara this episode. Nor did we have to spend any of our precious time listening to Eugene and his ridiculously over-the-top way of speaking, or Gabriel talking about God.

There were essentially three stories at play in the 12th episode of the season:

Rick and Negan apparently trying not to kill one another;

Simon trying to get Dwight on board with his final solution;

Maggie, Michonne, Enid and Rosita meeting a new group of survivors to make a trade.

Let's go through each of these in turn, starting with...

The Chase

The action scenes in The Walking Dead are so weird. When Rick spots Negan at the rear of the Saviors' caravan, he follows and manages to broadside Negan's car, apparently cutting him off from the rest of his people. The actual logistics of this are sort of weird---I'm not entirely sure why Negan drives away from his people instead of toward them.

In any case, we see the beginning of an exciting car chase and then it just skips all the interesting bits and jumps ahead to where apparently both drivers got into an accident. Negan's car has flipped and he's banged up pretty good. Rick is in better shape and is better armed, so naturally he carefully approaches the car, flanking Negan and shooting him once he has a clear view of his target, filling the Savior leader full of so much lead his people won't even recognize the body.

Or, because this is The Walking Dead, none of that happens. For whatever reason, Rick is a terrible shot. He's basically a Stormtrooper. It's like the opening episode of the season, when they all start shooting blindly at Negan and his lieutenants and can't hit a thing.

Rick opens fire dozens of yards from his quarry, emptying a clip into Negan's car without even checking to see if Negan is actually behind it. Negan escapes into a building while Rick reloads. Then Rick chases him, wisely hanging on to his newly reloaded machine gun so that he can shoot Negan with it---oh wait, no, sorry that would make way too much sense for this show. Instead, Rick tosses his now fully loaded weapon onto the ground for no reason at all and runs in brandishing his six-shooter which he then shoots wildly at stuff missing Negan every single time until he runs out of bullets and just stands there like an idiot probably wondering why he dropped his other gun outside.

Now Negan has a bat and Rick has a hatchet, so of course Rick throws the hatchet at Negan, his last remaining weapon other than a knife, because if he can't hit him with a gun surely he'll do better lobbing an ax. Somehow Negan falls trying to get out of the way, dropping Lucille over the edge and into the gaping hole below. Negan is hanging from the edge like a cartoon character and Rick slowly walks up the stairs to retrieve his hatchet. Naturally, Negan's plot armor is much too thick for Rick to even get a hit in and he falls (like a cat!) a couple stories and lands without a scratch on him.

Rick finds Lucille and lights the bat on fire. Then he bashes open a door with zombies on the other side, trying to use them to kill Negan. Naturally Negan just tackles Rick and knocks them both into the zombie-filled chamber. Rick swings Lucille at Negan a couple times, proving that not only can he not hit someone with a gun and a hatchet, he can't swing a bat to save his life (let alone end Negan's.) There's a scuffle. Negan gets Lucille back. They both kill some zombies. Then Negan climbs out a window (because I guess they weren't in a basement even though it was super dark and seemed like a basement?) and gets away.

All of this could have been a really fun action segment with great tension and fights, but the weird writing keeps holding it back. Rick shooting from so far away instead of being even slightly intelligent about his approach. Tossing away the gun for no reason. Shooting wildly and blindly with limited bullets. It's so infuriating to see this show make its lead character so incompetent when he very clearly isn't. Negan's plot armor is ridiculously thick, allowing him to flip his car, get shot at numerous times, dodge an ax a bat and a dozen zombies and still get away.

So when we learn that Jadis has somehow kidnapped him (we don't see this, just like we don't see the car crash) it's not particularly interesting. I mean, Jadis will almost certainly want Negan dead, but because this is The Walking Dead he'll probably make some deal with her. That deal will almost certainly involve killing Simon instead, because Rick let slip that all the Trash People were dead, something Negan didn't know. Simon's days seem numbered one way or another.

Moving on...

Simon and Dwight

Much of the episode centered around Simon talking to Dwight and Dwight muttering some stuff. Simon isn't happy that Negan is taking half-measures with Rick's group. He argues that they won't ever give up fighting, and it's best to just end Rick and crew permanently rather than try to frighten them once again into submission.

Simon's made this case to Negan, but Negan still believes the Kingdom, Hilltop and the smoldering ashes of Alexandria can all still be 'saved' by him. People are a resource, Simon. Though how they're a resource when they spend all their time shooting at you is beyond me.

In any case, Simon makes the case to Dwight who doesn't really commit to anything but when they find Negan's blood-smeared car they both decide to give up looking for him. Both men would be perfectly happy with Negan out of the picture---Dwight because it's his ultimate goal anyways, and Simon for plenty of reasons, not the least of which is his secret slaughter of the Trash People. Perhaps more importantly, Simon would likely take over the Saviors, or at least have a good shot at taking over Negan's old job.

Dwight tosses his cigarette at Negan's car, lighting it up, and both men give up the search. When they return to the other Saviors Simon makes it clear that they're going to put an end to their foes once and for all, "for Negan." He uses the ambush as an excuse to disregard Negan's express orders. He seems a little too confident that Negan is dead. But without a body he can't be certain of anything.

I think Simon is a great character and it's a shame he's almost certainly a goner. I'm also curious what Dwight is going to do now that the plan has become so much deadlier. Will he be able to get to Hilltop and warn them before the Saviors?

The Key To Your Future

Finally, back at the Hilltop Maggie, Enid, Michonne and Rosita find a strange message. In exchange for a crate of records, they'll receive the key to their future. There's a meeting point, and while Maggie doesn't want to go but Michonne convinces her and the four women go to the meeting point.

When they arrive there are two women in sunglasses standing by a van. A third, older woman emerges from the van. She's well dressed and surprisingly clean and put together for an apocalypse survivor. She's also very nice and tells them that in exchange for the records, she'll give them knowledge.

Maggie, however, has apparently become an outlaw. She has Rosita sneak up from behind and then tells Enid to take their guns. Even once they're disarmed she still points her gun at the incredibly non-threatening women, scowling and mean-mugging them and ultimately kidnapping them and taking them back to Hilltop.

Once back, Maggie and Enid decide that they should steal all their stuff and send them packing. Or maybe keep them as prisoners. Enid is especially sure that stealing from these very nice people is a great idea because stuff never works out and who cares about strangers anyways? Maggie is inclined to agree, but Michonne points out that Carl wouldn't approve. She probably could have mentioned how Glenn wouldn't approve either. But regardless, her point gets through to Maggie. You can't just rob from people and still consider yourselves the good guys, and I'm glad Michonne remembers that because Maggie was on the brink.

Later, Michonne and Enid talk about it and Enid proves yet again that she's a total waste of oxygen. She tells Maggie that she killed the Oceanside leader and that's why she's still alive. But Carl saved Siddiq and he's dead. So doesn't that mean that, uh, killing people is the right move or something? It makes no sense, especially since she just finished lecturing the Oceanside women about their murderous tendencies. Sorry, Enid is just a vehicle for bad dialogue. She has no core, no character, no original thoughts or ideas, no reason to exist at all.

On the other hand, I like these new characters. The 'moisture' line was the funniest thing this show has done in years. And the book of knowledge that they give to Maggie once she decided not to rob and/or imprison them is a true treasure. It's filled with schematics and explanations of how to build stuff, from windmills to aqueducts. Essentially, it's an instruction manual on how to survive in a world without modern technology.

See, Maggie, you can be nice to people. You don't have to treat everyone you meet like villains. Honestly, I do understand why Rick was suspicious of Siddiq and why Maggie is suspicious of these women, but the degree to which they've become hostile to any outsiders is a little preposterous. They were all strangers once. They decided to help one another and it got them here.

If anything, other people should keep their distance from our heroes. After all, it only took two seasons or so for Rick's group to completely lay waste to Alexandria and many of its inhabitants, including its leaders (who built the place and made it work) as well as the town doctor and his entire family.

Verdict

All told, not my least favorite episode of all time but nothing special either. I still think all the episodes in this half of the season are better than all the episodes in the first half of the season, but all the little stupid things the writers do just ruin any real enjoyment I could be having. Making Rick a bumbling idiot who can't shoot or think properly is really aggravating. And Maggie has been too over the top in a lot of ways, though her accent seems a little better lately. I'm hoping she's toned it down on purpose and we won't go back to super thick, fake-sounding Southern accent again. (Apparently Maggie was the only person in her family to have such a thick drawl, given that neither Hershel or Beth sounded anything like that ever...)

I also liked the brief scene between Daryl and Rick. Daryl's apology was probably more words than Daryl's uttered in the past two seasons combined. It's nice to know he talk beyond grunts, monosyllabic muttering and the occasional rage-filled yell. Then again, he also offered to tag-team with Rick but Rick, because the writers are just hellbent on making him stupid, says they're better off splitting up. When has that ever been true in a TV show or movie? "Let's split up" is always a bad idea and it was here as well. The pair of them could have easily killed Negan. But his plot armor is so thick, it convinces Rick to go out there alone instead of bringing backup. Oy vey.

My favorite part of the episode was definitely the new characters. I'm excited to learn more about them. Like Siddiq, I find these new characters to be a lot more interesting and tolerable than many of the older ones. And given just how many characters have been killed off lately, if this show wants to stick around much longer we'll need to weed out lots of bad characters and replace them with lots of good characters.

Oh, and weed out the bad writers, producers and directors while you're at it. The Walking Dead is in terrible shape. It needs to make drastic changes if it wants to survive.

You can read my preview of Fear The Walking Dead's fourth season here. From what I've seen so far, it's far better than The Walking Dead has been in years, and even better than Fear's excellent third season....

Also check out our latest Walking Dead podcast below:


Erik Kain , CONTRIBUTOR
 
Posts: 13226 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, spoilers, but does it even matter anymore? This show has turned into garbage...

Rick with an AR and unlimited ammo with a Python backup can’t gun down his enemy after a car crash. It’s embarrassing at this point. And yes, he actually dropped his AR to chase down Negan with a revolver.
 
Posts: 432 | Registered: November 18, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Did Simon also have one of those Walking Dead exclusive M16/AR15's without a rear sight?
 
Posts: 1640 | Location: NH | Registered: January 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Who Woulda
Ever Thought?
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With lack of marksmanship like that you'd think Rick was the one who was blind in one eye.
 
Posts: 5935 | Registered: August 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What was that with Rick and Negan chatting in the bowels of whatever building that was? Yakking away and neither seems very interested in tracking where the other voice was coming from.

After Rick peppered Neagan's car, did anyone anywhere expect Rick to get to the car's other side and find Swiss cheese Negan? Rick - "Hmmm! Alrighty then..."

Tara or Enid most obnoxious character? Make way for Georgie. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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Posts: 5061 | Location: Columbia, Illinois | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Chip away the stone
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quote:
Originally posted by Texas Bob C.:
With lack of marksmanship like that you'd think Rick was the one who was blind in one eye.


...and can't see out of the other.
 
Posts: 10515 | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by terra:
Did Simon also have one of those Walking Dead exclusive M16/AR15's without a rear sight?


Yep, and he had his finger on the trigger most of the time.

/groan/
 
Posts: 13226 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by aparoche:
Yes, spoilers, but does it even matter anymore? This show has turned into garbage...

Rick with an AR and unlimited ammo with a Python backup can’t gun down his enemy after a car crash. It’s embarrassing at this point. And yes, he actually dropped his AR to chase down Negan with a revolver.


I watch the show because I suppose I want to see it to its conclusion, however, it’s almost as if the writers are intentionally trying to make it over the top stupid.
 
Posts: 4407 | Location: WI | Registered: July 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by BMR:
I watch the show because I suppose I want to see it to its conclusion, however, it’s almost as if the writers are intentionally trying to make it over the top stupid.

Right there with you. I'm too far invested to give up now and I wish they'd just get it over with ASAP. This last episode was just so MORONIC!!!

Afterthought: Sometimes I'm not the brightest bulb in the 3-way light socket, but did Rick and Jadis collude together for Jadis to capture Negan or did that just happen by insurmountable odds??

This message has been edited. Last edited by: erj_pilot,



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 4964 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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but did Rick and Jadis collude together for Jadis to capture Negan or did that just happen by insurmountable odds??



That was just bad writing. Rick left Jadis for dead last we saw. Alone with the undead remnants of her weird artsy fartsy community.



There will be whores, tits and sex.
 
Posts: 4265 | Location: Houston, Tx | Registered: January 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
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I would tell you guys to start your own thread if you don't like TWD but I'd be there with you.

I don't care anymore.

The kid is going off to college but they try to make a big deal out of it. They start talking about what he said. That's a clue the show is taking itself too seriously.

All the garbage people get killed. I don't care. All I can think of is she's making chili. I suppose it's a twist from the garbage people joining Rick and easily ousting Negan.

I thought they finally had a plan to beat Negan; how come it's being stretched out? And before Negan's story is tied up, they introduce Martha Stewart. I don't care. With all the new characters they're introducing, I'm not intrigued.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 14934 | Location: Bay Area, CA | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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