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Member |
So Im trying to sell a rifle here in NC... This is what someone interested in buying it messaged me... "I'm not looking to create a paper trail if I purchase your rifle. I value my families privacy and security. I will show you my CHP and NCDL" This sounds like a dealbreaker to me but want to defer to the collective in case I am being too paranoid. My thinking is I need some sort of document to show that I transferred the rifle out of my possession in case its used in a crime. Thanks JB --------------------------------------- It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves. | ||
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| No, not like Bill Clinton  |
If you're not comfortable doing it, don't. In GA there is no requirement to document a private gun sale, not suppose to knowingly sell to a felon either of course. I don't require any documentation or ID, if I don't like you, you can't buy my weapon | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
It's your stuff. Set your terms. But, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I have valid state TX DL and LTC. I have bought and sold like this many times. It's not illegal. They show me their DL/LTC, and I show them mine. Cash and carry. No paper trail. Most folks do not want government sticking their nose in their business.
Paper trail or not, if the gun ends up being used in a crime, you can bet the fed will be able to track it down to the original owner. And, if you didn't break the law when selling, what's the fear? Stop being paranoid. I had a couple of ATF guys pay me a visit several years ago, because a couple of guns I sold ended up in Mexico, used in crime, of course. I was original owner. Told them I sold them legally to TX residents years ago. No paper trail. Didn't break any law. That was the end of it. Q | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
In my opinion, if someone doesn’t want you to create a paper trial to cover your ass, it’s a no go. You’re not some type of informant, but you have to look out for you. | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
My sentiments exactly. If I'm doing a FTF sale I'll show a DL and two different CCWs, but no bill of sale, no writing down names and addresses. On a couple of local boards I frequent (greater Phoenix area) there have been many threads about it and the upshot was that sellers are pretty much required to put something in their ad to the effect that they're going to document the sale. The majority of the people on the boards said it would be a show stopper for them if the sale was documented and now most people don't do it. | |||
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| Member |
Agree 100%. It would be a no go for me. | |||
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Bolt Thrower |
The most I did was show each other our carry permit and driver’s license, before we got mandated background checks. | |||
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| Member |
OK thanks for the feedback...this is more common than I thought. JB --------------------------------------- It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves. | |||
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Member |
Know your state's laws. Like 12131, I have partaken in many private party buy/sell/trade transactions. Sometimes we did a bill of sale (BoS), sometimes not. TX law does not require a BoS. A lot of guys will only deal w/ other CHL/LTC holders. The important thing is to decide what your comfortable with and be clear about it w/ prospective buyers. Besides a paper trail, another legitimate concern is having yet another document out in the world that leaves you a little more vulnerable to ID theft. Some guys will require taking a photo of your ID for their records, and that's where I draw the line. I've seen spiteful people post the photo they took of someone else's DL to screw w/ them. If your buyer has a CHP, then what are you worried about? | |||
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Member |
If asked, "I sold it to some guy at a gun show several years ago. I confirmed he was a New Hampshire resident by his driver's license and NH pistol and revolver license." The P&R license is our CCW. No longer required since we have constitutional carry, but many of us still get it for purposes of reciprocity and technically required for FTF handgun sales. 5 years for just $10 with 2-3 day turnaround for same town renewal.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Blackmore, Truth: The New Hate Speech | |||
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| Raised Hands Surround Us Three Nails To Protect Us  |
I have sold a few face to face. Never done a bill of sale just looked at their valid concealed carry permit and said good day. Same with purchasing a few. Granted I still have the emails where I was contacted by them. Sounds like you have a message from him. Just save that. But if the gut says dude is a turd you should go with that feeling. ———————————————— The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad. If we got each other, and that's all we have. I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand. You should know I'll be there for you! | |||
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| 10mm is The Boom of Doom  |
Whether buying or selling, if something seems hinky to you, walk. The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound. | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
If he presents his CHP and driver’s license, the sale is legal in NC. There is no requirement to have a bill of sale, etc. As the seller, I agree it is completely up to you. If nothing else you have whatever communication the two of you had as proof of selling it. I’ve done lots of back tracing on gun stuff through the years. When the seller had the information it was convenient. When they didn’t it was usually a dead end. I’m fine with that if the alternative is the government being able to track every single gun. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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| Member |
Very useful!!! Thanks JB --------------------------------------- It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves. | |||
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Caribou gorn |
I've never wanted a paper trail either. I don't require anything when I privately sell a gun and I'd rather not sign anything either. It's good imo, that he's letting you know his preference. If course, nothing is required here in a georgia except that you reasonably believe the person is a resident of the state. I don't need proof and I, personally, don't even ask to see drivers license or weapons license unless something were to seem off, which it never has. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Leatherneck |
I’ve sold guns locally and never required a paper trail aside from keeping the text messages and any emails or PMs on forums. That said, if someone specifically told me that they didn’t want a paper trail I’d probably decline to sell them the gun. A few years ago I got a screaming deal on a Glock 23 from a guy who mentioned in his ad that he wanted to meet at an FFL and have them do the transfer, and that he’d pay for the transfer. We met at the FFL but he didn’t actually require me to go through that process, he was just using the process to vet buyers. He said that the reason the price was so low was because he couldn’t find anyone willing to meet at the FFL. “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
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Don't Panic |
I'm going to go contrarian here. "value my family's privacy and security" - is he suggesting you should not make a note of to whom and when you sold the rifle, and that you got paid and accepted the payment in full and have him sign that he accepted delivery? Yeah, no. I don't transact stuff of value that way - not guns, not automobiles. Nothing. A document avoids disputes ("That's not the gun I bought". "I never got paid!" "You never delivered the gun!" .....) The old saw "Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on," has a lot of truth to it. It's not an issue of whether the guy is OK to own a rifle - NC Drivers License and matching CHP is all it would take at the FFL/LGS here.  Plus - going out on a limb here - the local sheriff's office has records of all the Concealed Handgun Permit holders issued in their county, including fingerprints. As a practical matter, the 'privacy' thing kinda went out the window when the permit was applied for. | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
Like I said, it's up to the seller to decide whatever he wants to do with his stuff. There is no right or wrong way to do this, as long as no laws are broken. But that last part has nothing to do with the "privacy" we're discussing here. Sure, the government can have all my personal information (name, DOB, address, fingerprints, background, whatever), but he won't know what and how many guns I own, if all I buy are from FTF deals without Bill of Sale, again with no laws broken. Many folks just don't want the government nosing around about their private lives. Q | |||
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| Edge seeking Sharp blade! |
In states where allowed, a cash and carry firearms transaction between citizens is one of the greatest expressions of Constitutional American freedom. Its a beautiful thing when it happens without any feelings of anything else going on or "heeby jeebies" Many completely above board transactions have some appreciation of that, without any talk or specifying it. Just because a buyer mentions it or requires it, possibly doesn't indicate they aren't qualified for this type of transaction, but may contribute to the intuitional vetting we do. It may also be another factor adding to others that maybe things aren't all above board, and you've just altered the transaction to a requirement that the transfer goes through an FFL. | |||
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| Caribou gorn |
Do you get a bill of sale and write down someone's information if you sell a lawnmower or guitar or a puppy or a used sofa? If so, ok, that's your stance. Treating guns differently is what antis want us to do and the fact is, they are not different under the law in this instance so I don't think we should act as if they are and add undue restrictions. Thinking of them differently is the reason for the push for universal background checks, for instance. Once they are out of a dealer's possession, they are just like any other thing. (In areas where that is the law.) I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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