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Warning: Blown Primers with Independence/Federal 5.56, Lot number FC16B001-169 (Updated With Better Photos) Login/Join 
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
That's Lake City ammunition, isn't it?


It is made in Israel. The only connection to Lake City is that Federal set up the plant Independence comes out of and owns a share of its production.
 
Posts: 16975 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of swage
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Make sure you check your firing pin. In my experience, once you blow a primer it damages your firing pin making it more likely to continue blowing primers.
 
Posts: 1542 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of redleg2/9
posted Hide Post
Independence is commercial ammo made by IMI to Federal's specifications.

Similar to Winchester making rifles for Sears to Sears' specs that the salesman would always proudly tell you was made Winchester. He never mentioned the lesser quality.

IMI ammo made to the NATO and US specifications is the finest you can buy. It is the same ammo used by the IDF and they are not going to screw around in defending Israel.

http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=63189

.


“Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl.”

"…e questi fieno quelli de quali Demetrio disse, no facie va conto piv del uento il quale nella lor bocca causaua le parole, che del ueto ch usciua delle parti di sotto..."
Leonardo da Vinci
 
Posts: 1635 | Location: Louisiana - north of N.O. | Registered: January 15, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be Well and Keep Your Rifle Clean
Picture of mrmn50
posted Hide Post
I have a few hundred rounds that I will be sending to my wife's brother. Razz
Never liked him anyway.

JK




"..AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC,...SO HELP ME GOD."


 
Posts: 20668 | Location: Czechtown,Minnesota | Registered: October 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
I had a similar problem with this ammo at a class about 6 weeks ago. I bought the ammo through the shop connected to the training and had never fired any of it through my BCM rifle (lesson learned). I had multiple issues, including double feeds and a stuck cartridge. My good luck ended with a bolt that wouldn't go into battery. It turns out that a primer had blown out and was lodged in the barrel extension in a way that neither the instructor or I could see it. Obviously, we couldn't disassemble the rifle either which would have allowed me to use the back-up BCG I had with me. We didn't spend much time on it as the class needed to continue. I used his spare rifle to complete the course, but I swore off Independence for good. Looks like I need to double check my firing pin on that BCG now.

Funny enough most of what I've shot through that rifle was IMI M855 surplus ammo and it's functioned flawlessly.
 
Posts: 135 | Registered: April 26, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
Picture of soggy_spinout
posted Hide Post
It's been a couple of years since I last shot Independence 5.56; didn't have any problems with it then, still have a couple hundred or so rounds from that batch. We recently got a bunch of IMI-branded 5.56 M193 in (yellowish box with green and white ink, not the white box with blue lettering). I was going to pick up some of that but now I think I'll hold off until I hear more reports on how that stuff is running. A couple of regulars have been raiding our stock and have said that it runs 'great', so perhaps this lot is unrelated to the ammo lot that you unfortunately came across.
 
Posts: 7327 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had the same thing happen to me about 2 months ago. I bought 2 boxes from PSA to try it out. Glad I didn't simply believe all the good reviews on the PSA site and buy a whole bunch.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Cypress, TX | Registered: August 23, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of tha1000
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i've never had any issues with independence. I have a couple cases in the closet, i will have to check the lot number.


_________________________________________
I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew...
 
Posts: 4704 | Location: MS | Registered: June 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of redleg2/9
posted Hide Post
quote:
IMI-branded 5.56 M193 in (yellowish box with green and white ink, not the white box with blue lettering)

Same great IMI M193, just new commercial boxing.

.


“Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl.”

"…e questi fieno quelli de quali Demetrio disse, no facie va conto piv del uento il quale nella lor bocca causaua le parole, che del ueto ch usciua delle parti di sotto..."
Leonardo da Vinci
 
Posts: 1635 | Location: Louisiana - north of N.O. | Registered: January 15, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ethics, antics,
and ballistics
Picture of Dtech
posted Hide Post
While I don't own any Indepenece, I might actually be using it first before any of my other ammo that I already know is not an issue to use it up first. It's a catch 22 though because if it is a safety issue then you may be putting yourself in harms way. Interested to see how Independence/IMI/whoever handles it.


-Dtech
__________________________
"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein

"Greatness is maximizing your potential for the glory of God and the good of others." - Tony Evans

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling
 
Posts: 3493 | Location: South Florida | Registered: April 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Admin/Odd Duck

Picture of lbj
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Apparently, while there are many people like me having this problem with the Independence, there are also a ton of people who do not have problems.

My upper is a Colt M4 profile 16in barrel with Colt marked carrier and bolt. It originally came in a Colt box.
I am not saying Colt is any better or worse than other manufacturers, but I would think what I have is of decent quality.
The barrel is specifically marked 5.56 NATO, not .223.

A few weeks ago when I bought this Independence, I did fire about 80rds without a hitch.
I did clean everything really well, but the last 2 boxes were terrible, so I have stopped shooting it.
That's when I shot older 1999 IMI and it works just fine in it.


____________________________________________________
Proud to be a rebel and a heretic.

Me about this thread:
There is iron in my words of death for all to see.
So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 30404 | Registered: February 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of leavemebe
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I've shot a metric ton of IMI ammunition over the years. Never had any problem with the ammunition. Probably still have 10K rounds available of various flavors (I am an Ammoholic so its hard to know for sure). I've shot maybe 2K of Independence also without any problems. This really does sound like a bad lot so hopefully Federal and IMI will take action on this issue and make things right fast.


"I am determined to defend my rights and maintain my freedom or sell my life in the attempt." N. Greene.
 
Posts: 432 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by leavemebe:
I've shot a metric ton of IMI ammunition over the years. Never had any problem with the ammunition. Probably still have 10K rounds available of various flavors (I am an Ammoholic so its hard to know for sure). I've shot maybe 2K of Independence also without any problems. This really does sound like a bad lot so hopefully Federal and IMI will take action on this issue and make things right fast.


A metric ton of 5.56 ammo? How much is that?

Well, let's see. 55gr for bullet, 80gr for case, 25gr for powder and 10 grain for primer, That's about 170grain per round. (Note to self, next time you charge some cases, weigh a 55gr loaded cartridge, if you have any.)

At 7000 grains per pound, we get about 41 cartridges per pound. A metric ton is 2,200 pounds, so a metric tone of that ammo will be 90,200 cartridges. That represents a sizable investment.
 
Posts: 2566 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yokel
Picture of ontmark
posted Hide Post
I have had blown primers from some old Argentina Military Ammo I traded my Swedish M855 for.

I was going to a range (Club) and did not know what restrictions they had on steel core ammo.

I had three out of about 250 rounds blow the primer out of them.

All the others I looked at the primers were flat as hell with the firing pin indented in them.

All three times the primers were to be found down in the fire control group area. It would lock up the trigger action and I had to open up the top and shake them out.

It was out of my almost brand new SIG 516 Patrol Riffle.

I do not think the age or condition of the rifle has anything to do with it. Just some Mil Spec 556 are loaded hot.

The Danish M855 I bought a year ago from AIM all have the primers dimpled in the cases.
Why dimple them in the cases unless blown primers may be an issue on the hot rounds.

It was packaged very nice and in sealed 50 Cal Cans. Got two sealed cans, 900, rounds each, under the bed.

I know I have some old cases at the house somewhere. I will try to find them and post up some pics.

Found the worse case I saved.

It may have been Malaysia Surplus.
Those with more experience may figure the head stamping out.

Can I join your club??

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ontmark,



Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it! - John Steinbeck
 
Posts: 3127 | Location: Vallejo, CA | Registered: August 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Admin/Odd Duck

Picture of lbj
posted Hide Post
It's not exactly the good kind of club to belong to.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
A metric ton of 5.56 ammo? How much is that?

Well, let's see. 55gr for bullet, 80gr for case, 25gr for powder and 10 grain for primer, That's about 170grain per round. (Note to self, next time you charge some cases, weigh a 55gr loaded cartridge, if you have any.)

At 7000 grains per pound, we get about 41 cartridges per pound. A metric ton is 2,200 pounds, so a metric tone of that ammo will be 90,200 cartridges. That represents a sizable investment.


Now that is funny right there.


____________________________________________________
Proud to be a rebel and a heretic.

Me about this thread:
There is iron in my words of death for all to see.
So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 30404 | Registered: February 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Admin/Odd Duck

Picture of lbj
posted Hide Post
The problem I had the other day with the Independence ammuntion is just that, the ammunition used.
My rifle is fine.

I just got back from firing 100rds of Prvi Partizan M193 (PPU) without any problems whatsoever.
I liked the way the PPU shot, it had sufficient oomph and functioned perfectly.



____________________________________________________
Proud to be a rebel and a heretic.

Me about this thread:
There is iron in my words of death for all to see.
So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 30404 | Registered: February 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
posted Hide Post
Has anyone thought to reverse engineer the load?
What powder and weight?
I have only had this problem with some 308 rifle ammo in my gassers but would shoot fine in the bolt action.
I reload now so I rarely use factory ammo anymore and also have loaded too hot on occasion while testing loads.
Also a chrono can confirm hot loads too.
There could be other physical things can contribute and cartridge measurements should be taken.
It doesn't really say anything about Independence as a company except that load is wrong for that rifle unless something is abnormal in the load or batch.
 
Posts: 13842 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mr. Nice Guy
Picture of BucFan
posted Hide Post
I have half a case of this ammo. Will have to check the lot number on them.

Besides the firing pin, could the bad primers damage any other part of the rifle?



Sig P229R 9mm
Sig P320c 9mm
 
Posts: 855 | Location: Tampa, FL USA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
ammoholic
Picture of drtenb330
posted Hide Post
This happened to me a few weeks ago at a PD range, using a LaRue. Second time I had a primer issue with Independence.
Lot #FC15L001-156.
First time it happened in a Black Rain Ordinance AR, and I thought it was just normal since I shoot a decent amount. S**t happens.
I have gone through a few hundred rounds of the same lot - I bought 1,000 rounds. I'm not using it at this point. Done.
Both times I was able to pull the primer out myself, but the second time it was jammed in pretty well with a round in the chamber. I had the PD armorer and RI both help with the removal.
 
Posts: 1319 | Location: Miami Beach, Florida | Registered: December 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Admin/Odd Duck

Picture of lbj
posted Hide Post
Now there are 2 lot numbers.
Plus, IMO, there are just too many other reports of blown primers out on the net in order for me to be comfortable with the current year Independence.

In the past, ammunition products from Israel have always been top notch.
Hopefully they will fix these issues pronto.


____________________________________________________
Proud to be a rebel and a heretic.

Me about this thread:
There is iron in my words of death for all to see.
So there is iron in my words of life.

 
Posts: 30404 | Registered: February 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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